Leo Ariel on Quitting Amazon to Build a Startup While Traveling

[0:00] welcome Leo to create a new podcast I started this podcast about a year and a half ago I curious to know how people decide the career related decisions and how they executed I know Leo for a year we start we was together in ship 3430 Leo was in Amazon and then he decided to lead the company and go for 12 months mon in 12 countries with that will and all my to Leo Leo how did you get your job at Amazon I got my job at Amazon so to backup for a minute I was in college in University from 2018 to end of 21 so so really kind of internship at

[0:54] Amazon during my junior year summer right before I graduate then they extended a fulltime author after I graduate and so decided to take that after I got out of school this was summer of last year so 2022 okay thank you what college which college you was in I was at Cornell University and in up state New York okay so was he when he was in in Amazon how was the liting play so we were so this was after clate but obviously prob it changed things right remote work became a option and so my role was I a software engineer was

[1:46] technically hybrid meaning some days in the office some days out of the office but really my team was about is what's my day life I think I went to the office about one time so mostly my phone mhm and on my laptop and work for home I think that was a big part of it my team you know was around 12 14 people it was a large team and and everything was asness and that yeah so that's yeah a little bit about yeah okay then you decided to leave it and go for this world travel like was it a true part of the season was it one B season so I was

[2:32] really unhappy at Amazon like I was miserable and that's what really drove me to leave right I think on paper I had at night I'll be transparent I was making my salary is 170,000 a year entry level which is really good I had freedom of the world right I didn't have to go to the office I could really work as much or as little as I wanted to and my teammates were nice my manager was understanding and so I was living in seatt at this time and so really I had it nice it's what what college put on a pedestal right working cruising through

[3:11] life and but for me that wasn't the life I wanted to live for like this work I was doing I was very bored by uninspired not something I wanted to do and was tiring was taxing on on me I left after I left every meeting feeling drained and just sucked all the joy and energy my life at this point I didn't know what the alternative would be I've been in this scho sort of system for so long and really I knew I had to do something and I didn't know what that would be ended up being a one year of brav sort of 12 countries 12 months as you said but

[3:52] really it was just unhappiness right un happiness that that forced my hand thank you for sharing that very personal and those a personal experience when I heard about you leaving Amazon I was sh I said what you were only there for a year and you made I was there for 10 weeks 10 weeks oh yeah yeah now it's the year that we know each other yes you was not long and seeing that's too quick to decide you again me being very experienced and you being new that was my expression because I have spent enough time or more time than

[4:40] needed in everything so that was my first reaction but at the same time now I feel like you done the best thing I I wish I could have done something similar I had a desire to live in many places and I have done that I think I've been in 10 cities but not like you 12 country but that was one of my desire and now I feel like I wish I should have done this I I was on a path to different places but once time I was in Florida I stayed here and I did not move further I've been to three different cities or state within the US

[5:24] and I think that was my in my mind that every couple of years I will just move to different places different so I'm very happy that now that you're doing it and you have done it no I a lot of things by what you said thanks for sharing a lot of the advice that like 10 weeks it is a short period of time I technically was more than that because I did an internship before so that was 12 weeks and then I knew what I was getting into you're right A lot of people think that's too short and you hear career advisors or people saying give it a few

[5:57] more year we stay at a company may have to stay for leas I don't know six months at least a year at least two years it'll look good in your resume and for me it was like for what right I know that I don't like this why would I stay here for another year it wasn't like I needed the money to feed my family I was unlucky lucky enough to not be in that situation so for me it was a question of why or why why St and there wasn't a compelling reason and and the second part of what we saw um maybe just what audience um uh some

[6:36] background but unless my job at Amazon August 31st 2022 and then I began my year of travel September 1st so like really the next day and I'll finish August 31st this year and that's 12 countries 12 months I been so first stop his Bali in the IIA second stop was Portugal third was Vietnam then South Africa then Argentina then Colombia then Australia then Japan now Spain been really all over the world every except maybe Antarctica or something and of course in between I I visit a lot more countries in between but those are the main ones and yeah

[7:27] like it's best decision I I think I made in my life because it was actually the first decision just reflecting it was the first decision I made for myself everything PRI was made for me I didn't choose which neighborhood to live in I didn't really choose which school to go to I didn't really choose like a job just there but this was really the first break that I'd see Define my like year so I'm really proud of that one I want to stay on this topic for few more minute you come up with this idea what happened for the year of travel

[8:02] yeah I actually call it one year of travel new year new me and I really like the phrase new year new me because that's a bit corny but also I think it it's a good description of what I wanted to do right I wanted me better version of myself I wanted to be happy I didn't know what that would look like and so really was a leap of faith right I didn't know what I wanted to do I had to figure it out and so so that was the motivation right and it's been a lot it's been a long journey a lot of uh difficult ke and a

[8:40] lot of good things you know at first obvious very challenging very challenging but as the months progressed I've been able to find myself understand myself better also know what I like more I dislike and now I'm a lot happier as a result but it's took really a wild sketch here and maybe we can uh talk about that as well how much money you had when you started cheling so I thought I had around that was the estimate I think when I left my I thought I had six months of expenses right that was I thought when I left I had six months of expenses turns

[9:23] out it was a bit more than that I'm still going after eight months and I think I might actually have enough to finish my year of travel without earning anything but when I left I thought I had six months and so that that really informed my thought process and are you working there to earn more money or add to whatever Reservoir you have at Amazon no no sorry whichever going to you going are you trying to find a job there some temporary job to hun some money to add to what you have so when I last I had six months or so I thought and so I knew

[9:59] that I needed to make money to find my travels and so that was a big consideration of let's say picking up freelance were or finding a job for the first few months I thought I would be applying back to Tech right just I thought because right of the of the let's say Safety and Security and knowing knowing what to expect and I didn't end up applying I didn't end up starting freelance and SP eight months I made pretty much zero dollars right I think I wrote a Blog for $250 but besides that nothing and other the experience I know

[10:47] you you writing on sub and then um are you planning to do video as well I suggested that few weeks ago that where are you going these videos are something that would be amazing are you planning to do some videos as well or are you recording videos to replace that video I think I've been doing short fud videos lately I just photos videos of of that I'm eating and how they make it but in terms of like videos of myself I don't know maybe one day right I used to be very uh camera shy and I still maybe am to some degree but I don't know

[11:32] I I think writing is also my strength I'm good at writing but I would love to incorporate video in some way right down the line in a way that I enjoy yeah it's open it's an open answer this point yeah I would tell you as a reader as your audience when I see some really good pictures of where you are or where you traveling my my desire temptation is to see more and videos is give you the entire glimpse of where you are for example this uh capsule Place capsule Hotel you should you send me couple of pictures you right on you I immedately

[12:17] thought oh a video would be amazing just to see the entir than the picture and your your newsletter you also have a great as amazing pictures and having a a clip there video clip there is the next thing that is oh I wish if there was a clar to see the traffic moving buildings um not just a stationary Thing versus just having a glimpse of well how this area look like how is this lcap to giving you idea be bad that's going be bad and i' i' recommend you follow me on Instagram in that case because I do a lot of that

[13:04] those clips on my Instagram but but thank you that's really good feedback thanks okay so I'm not in Instagram so that's why probably I miss that part I try to have lesser distraction and this of is one where you start and then you just uh lose 30 minutes if you are on Instagram so that's why I'm not in Instagram or not active or inst or NP so that's why I missed it but I will check now I and it's about what you want to see right you only see what you want to see and it's technically not a waste of time but but oh no for sure for

[13:46] sure yeah I mean these applications are designed to grab your attention so you go there to see uh Leos one video couple of videos and then they have it it's so so well designed that you will see other people feed and then there their feed is also so tempting and as I'm focusing on time management helping people with time management I have to make sure I'm good at that I can preach what I'm I'm teaching but one more question on this or maybe few more what your typical day look like when you're traveling what's the plan

[14:30] today today Saturday for you I don't have a typical day like I don't know what I'm going to be doing after this call okay so a different question then what type of activity you typically do I'm assuming you're mostly outside during the day or what kind of activities you do when you are in sh St it really depends at days where I stay inside the whole time at days where I'm out and about traveling my last month was in Japan so I spent all April in Japan and that was 30 days I booked 18 different places so I was changing hotels pretty

[15:10] much every day in different neighborhoods and so you can imagine that that's a constant but really it depends I like to have a favorite coffee shop if I can find one I like to go back and work there I like I'm a simple guy I hey the more I travel the less I want to do touristy thing meaning I don't want to take that trip out to the country side with I'm very comfortable keeping it very simple right going to a cafe walking around outside working on my postcard yeah pretty much so you also love new experiences so

[15:54] I do I do try a lot of new things like I did Acro yoga Saka went to these different establishments bar things like that different activities like going to a capsule hotel for instance visiting different places capitals calligraphy I did that a lot of I just try to keep an open mind and really take what's available sometimes going to meetups or language exchanges other times trying to getting into Google Maps reviews lately a lot of different things he you said you don't do too many tourist type activities the tourist places probably do yeah but I

[16:41] think what I was referring to there is that I feel less pressure to do those things okay usually when you go on usually when I meet other Trav Travelers they're on vacation they have limited week two weeks maybe less and so they really want to hit all the different different places and there's a pressure to do a lot of things to let's say make your time worth it for me since I'm a longer term Trav I stayed in the country for a month I'm really in no rush I'm fine with not seeing that museum I'm fine with taking it on my own pace and

[17:21] so the pressures in you differentiated here for the rest of the travel do you already have the artillery made or you going to make it I'm a very spontaneous book as I go person I I didn't know where I'm staying tonight let alone in a week or let alone in a yeah so how do you decide where you're going next I think I'm drawn places I haven't been before so there's that I think thinking about going to Saudi Arabia for maybe not mind but for a little bit Le I never been to the Middle East and been in that type of culture and so I think I I am drawn for

[18:10] that my framework was 12 countries 12 months every month I switch it up that's the only CS taking the place a more know what I feel it's what I think is right I think I'll finish the rest of my year Asia region whether it's Europe or Western Asia or Africa or the Middle East like in that area I think this is what I'm shooting for I saw that you SK you went around and you skipping deer are you planning to go or not it was originally on the L like I was originally wanting to go to India but I think a it's summertime so

[18:50] it's very fun or it will be summer time and the I think I'm saving it for next year was my answer but B also I I went to South southeast Asia and I think it's a similar Vibe and and so I don't feel any need go to India and I think you got a good sense of what that's like but I definitely want to go to India at some point in my life probably next year maybe if not then in the future than you so much for sharing all this thought process your actions your how you're navigating to this this is so powerful and especially for people who have not

[19:33] done it I think it so late so Leo you said August is when you will end this which is May June July August so four more months do you have plan what you're going to be doing after that or you will decide in next four months second I will de Sil next okay you want to say out okay all right I think something that might be helpful in terms of how I make decisions because that's I think that's a point that we're both interested in maybe is I'm really an intuitive decision maker right like I make decisions based on intuition there's no like logical

[20:20] plan that I follow even coming here to Madrid I'm I'm inan Madrid St I came here because my co-founder my startup is here and I wanted to meet up with him and so that could be one reason I went to be a n to be the frag I went to Japan because it's the most unique culture one of the most unique cultures in the world so none of this was planned from the start I didn't know when I left my job to travel the world I didn't know that first of all I didn't know that I would actually do it I thought I'd do one try one month and then be back in in big tag

[20:53] like I I wasn't I didn't have all confidence that I can actually pull it off so even that has took me a long time to really have that conviction that I'm going to do this and just more broadly my big thing is happiness I really like that that word and if anything that'ss the framework I use when I make decisions is what will make me happy and of course that's that looks different in different situations but I try to keep that in mind I forgot to ask two questions was related to how your parent and sibling reacted to this

[21:32] season and how they are reacting now yes so my parents came from China they immigrated to the United States in 1990 so they've been here for 30 years now over 30 years in the states and when they came here they had very little money education they had their money they speak the language and so of course they probably had it harder than I did Frankly Speaking and so they again I think if you're familiar with Asian sort of stereotype about putting the culture putting School above everything else career paths as well not

[22:12] not a lot of emotional help right makes it's very cold and maybe there's pressure so it's B that as well and when I left my job I didn't tell my until two days before I left August 29 on two days I was going to fly to Bali and that's when I told my mom hey I'll read my job I'm going to Bali oh my God and because I knew that at that time I was in a like a fragile me mental state I was very I can get SED very easily and so I knew that if I told my parents for that it's very real that they talk me out of it very it's a very high

[22:54] likelihood what I learned was to make my own decision and follow my heart and I think I don't know their reaction and they they didn't tell I mean you have to ask them right then we don't really Express maybe our emotions so I really I really don't know um I think now they're okay with it they haven't told me to go back or anything but I think from my perspective I don't know how they feel inside but from the outside feels like they're ambivalent meaning that they're they don't oppose me they don't oppose I'm

[23:28] doing but they're also not supporting it my entire journey is self-funded they I write postcards to them most of the time they don't respond but I know they read them so really I feel I feel self-sufficient and in terms of my siblings I have two younger siblings my sister is in college is at East Western my brother's in high school and I think for them it's the same it's we're all just living our own lives I love my family but but we don't talk that often maybe once a quarter we update or if not yeah they're they're been been going

[24:11] through a lot of what I been through I think they're a lot more mature and a lot more Health like a mentally in a better and you know I hope to be an inspiration for them as well right yeah I think interally somewhere in the heart they they do support you and as you said that the hent p and they would have told you if they was not happy with and you also talk about your the startup tell tell us more about that yeah so somewhere along the way I that as digital I was in Argentina I went to a digital m m event and I met a

[24:50] guy there and long story short he's now my co-founder for tech tech start up and and yeah it's wasn't looking at you want to start up before before I before it happened it just came together and that'd be a fun thing to do and so working on that for the last maybe two months and I just had all chat with today and it looks like we're going to be pursuing it and yeah well we're building an exclusive content black bar for creators since we believe in the Creator cont read the Creator industry and yeah it makes sense I my

[25:32] company pschology background understand how to build something like this and platforms and he's a my co-founder his name is gon he's a sales salesman and so actually not any salesman he's probably the best salesman number of ads and so I think that also was what I think meeting him is what for me I only do something if I think it's possible Right I'm building a startup I call it building a billion dollar business and might sound ambitious but I think we can get there and part of it is due to my co-founder part of it is Du to

[26:10] myself but I just think it will be fun right I think it it's something that we can do and I think it'll be a good story as well so I guess some something like Twitter medium.com that basically would be buing some kind of yeah it's still up in the air if we want to go do a social media platform we're thinking more of like exclusive content plat like patreon and yeah like only f f sites yeah it's still early start yeah yeah awesome so we have toward the end of our discussion I want to ask your goal setting and time management method

[26:51] what be useful that can you be more specific sure sure so for go setting some people do a smart goal some people do I do quarterly planning my own framework that I'm applying which I learned from my 95 job managing the agile transformation and all some people do slightly different approach to set their longterm and shortterm goal to give you more idea some people have their next 5 10 years kind of visle set I don't have my Approach right now is more Gardener where you plant the seed and then you work on them on a daily

[27:34] basis like water them fize them and then you prove things you let something grow and then you don't know what you will see in six month and I hear but you just keep working on it based on the growth right that's my current approach for my content side my writing side for my 9 to5 job I had really stringline 5e plans always until last 5 years so that's what I me when I was asking about what your goal setting method and then from time management method is some people just use a pent paper notebook to write things like my some people have a fancy

[28:21] application some people even go to this ABC method where they mark down their list with priorities and all that so I have answers to both maybe we'll start with time managements I think as I said before I'm an intuitive person meaning that I don't sit down and and plan each hour of the day I think and do that and so if you look at my calendar I actually shared my calendar my previous post C and it's completely empty there's nothing on there yeah I saw that I saw that yes and for me I think I'm the opposite for a lot of people I think a

[29:09] lot of people they feel very comforted by having their time set out knowing exactly what they're going to be doing this week right that brings some comfort or also be anxious am I doing things like that nature for me I think on the opposite whereas you if I had a lot of things on there that I didn't want to do I would look at that and and that would probably give me anxiety and so I don't worry about that yeah I get a lot of stuff done and I really do but I don't not all of it is planned in advance right I think that's

[29:46] maybe the difference a lot of the things I come up with on the Fly and it makes sense and it ends up working out and I think notion of calendar it's really a work it's an artifact of work right the artifact around working in Amazon or other tech company or any other it's I understand why people use it you don't have to and then let's talk about gold setting because think that's also interesting like I don't do smart or year planning I actually have a story I was I was on the plane from Cape Town to deran in South Africa and I was sitting

[30:26] next to this woman I think she was in her early 30s and she was a Med medical student right she go a medical track and we were talking just about life and and goals and career and everything that we're talking about and I asked her the same question and she says she knows exactly what you're doing she know you guys are a month planned out several months planned out she knows what she's Liv in a year she's know knows what she's going to do in five years she has a relationship and they know what they're going to do together that's her

[31:05] life and so I asked her like wow you must have it all figured out guess what she said hell no she was like I am a mess and I look at that that makes you think right it makes you think like huh this woman just plan everything out so carefully life still isn't that good and so for me I Center my life so I think of myself as a content creator I like being a Creator so I have three three content series that I'm doing the first one is one year of travel new year new me one we've been talking about second one is so that's 12 months

[31:52] 12 country I might do the second season right that's why about it that's on you sub sorry you cental subst yeah yeah and then I also have another series called building a billion dollar business and so that's the technology startup and I document all of that on my blog as well and then I have a third series which is I'm launching it this week in my next postcard uh but it's called humans and the world and that is more of an interview Series where I talk to people from all different backgrounds and situations and

[32:36] ages and genders and all and to Spotlight them right to to shine a light on The Human Experience for what it is and you know my goal for that is to make the world a better place right a kind of Cl through storytelling with relatability truth and so those are the few projects that I'm working on when you writing and I've seen your newsletters which is long so that the can effort Prime concentration how do you manage that from the focus distraction perspective and your time management perspective I don't for to write I think

[33:23] that's number one in school you're forced to write publish an essay 500 Words by next week and then it becomes unfun that takes all the joy out of it or at least that that the de pressure right sometimes write things you don't want to write about and and that can be I think that's when people start to complain and and be like I must get it done but I can't it's all these dist scratch things for me it's I write because I want to do it right for me it's fun I love after this call to spend my day writing my postart it's it's fun fun for me you

[33:58] know and you know I'm okay again my postcards are long they've been getting longer I'm okay with spending 10 hours on it 20 hours on it 30 hours on it because I enjoy it right and and so I don't really have that issue right and and I make it easy for myself as well I have a good idea of when I want to publish what G's right for me right now it's about every week but again I make it easy right I really force myself to do anything this is what more like what I wanted so how long it take you typically to rate one osar this

[34:34] one that I'm working on I probably spent a lot of time maybe 20 at least 20 hours wow some of it is a lot of it is also documenting so for example going to a place and taking a photo I want to count that as part of the writing process even just thinking about it when saking a knives or or like that it's part of my life it's and and so I like to challenge myself I try to push myself every time I try to push myself to see what I can do to make it better than the last one and I think that's really what drives me as well and

[35:13] I think I think you see that my postcards have evolved a lot and I hope they've gone better but they changed a lot since I started writing them for sure awesome I think one other the thing for sure that many of them I've not seen this side of I would say world but this side of the aspiration that somebody can do something like this uh and I think uh that's an inspiration most of the people have this aspiration that I want to get into a good job Tech job the second one is I want to do the certification or Master a

[35:52] technology and become a senior or moon right that's that's the spectrum that most of the routing it what you to show that you had that like you had Amazon that's bringing company to many people left there and trying something completely new I think the biggest help that you will be able to do is to show where it takes you and then is it just something that other people would like follow even if it is not world countries but may two countries something or allowing them themselves to not sticking to this waret of light

[36:38] to fire job and that's the only path that they can another thing is what we see most of the time is don't get into the IDI job you do your own personal whatever it is and that way you will control your time you will control your what you're doing but many of them who start that part actually becomes slave even more because now they have instead of one employer they have three F that are driving them crazy right they don't realize that plus they don't realize that at 9 to5 job a company like Amazon comes with a structure comes with some

[37:25] kind of knowledge that take you to the next level versus is starting your own something make freelancing and and having no structure no control over what might is asking right so I think those type of thing is definitely where you will be able to give the programmers whether they're junior senior that this is another option n to fight job is not the only option so I think those yeah exactly 9 to5 isn't it's an right there's a lot of ways in live life what being a solopreneur is one option traveling the world is one option could

[38:08] be Endless Options really endless and my big thing is to know yourself right it all starts with self-awareness yeah like a lot of people in the world they're very happy with the 9 to5 I was on a team at Amazon I was on a team of 12 people 14 people a lot of them were very happy right you tried telling them hey like you should go leave and Trav in the world' be weird it' be like You' be like why like why would I do that I think it's different for everyone like for me I was unhappy and so I needed to find my own happiness which is why I did what I

[38:46] did and if you're in that situation too and I encourage you to follow to follow them and see where it takes you like for me like all about happiness like I don't mind working let's say a 9 to five job I really don't but if I'm happy there then I do it so for me just happiness is everything yeah do you have a question for me I do B personal and all feel free to answer or not know you said that you're trying to put your 9 to5 or something like that and pursue your passion if I will call correctly and my question is what's

[39:26] holding you back great question as I was saying that u in my 95 job I was AER um after my engineering I couldn't find a job and I decided that I never will be in the situation where I am not able to get a good company or something so I decided that I would be in one of the top companies and in P years three years actually I was in number five software development company in India then following the same model I wanted to be in by my 40s I wanted to be in a job a management job that I would retire with where I want to settle into until

[40:10] then I tried a couple of things so I was following that P now I don't want to wait until my retirement to figure out what I will be doing after the retirement so that how I started building something on the side or taking this writing very seriously after joining ship 3430 and Captain Sable I converted transform this hobby writing as a hobby to writing as a profession U now I see the possibility now I see that how big I can make Plus on top of that I was able to figure out drill down in last two quarter is uh uh

[40:56] a Junior and senior web developer time management is the foundation for them to be able to do whatever they want to do so I am treating this time management as a bus come sit on it and I will take you to this aspiration goal setting Theory anyway what is holding me back is it's not big enough at my age I still need to be able to on enough so that later on I can I don't have to work and I can support myself right I am almost that a at the place where I can do that but not in a not exactly at that point so what is holding me is to be able to

[41:45] thrat my current earning or half of the earning with this allting this well I don't know the specifics of get financial sit situation so I'm not going to comment on that but maybe what I can provide is another perspective so you're 50 let's say you're 50 and let's say you'll be I actually try this to my friend who talks about this a lot but let's say we'll think about how many helpy active years will have left let's say that's maybe 85 and so if you say I'm going to work until I'm 65 or something retirement age that's 50% of the best

[42:25] years and that's a very high cost it's not nothing and the last thing you want to do is regrets like regret that you didn't do it right and now it's too late like that's that would be that's everything that would be the worst case now maybe maybe streaming like that might help you or your listeners or in this situation no for sure I'm already thinking that I'm 10 years late is doing this right they say the the mess time was yesterday the second mess time is now but sure yeah so what is learing me back is uncertainty about the financing

[43:12] uncertainly about whether I actually have enough work in this writing thing and substituting the FCI aspect with whatever I can build I think one of the thing that I was thinking yesterday only is to start taking maybe one day off every week I have enough for so I I can definitely survive with that so I will have 3 days for my personal work including weekends and 4 days for my 95 job and maybe I keep doing that from 5 days to 4 days to 3 days something like that so that's one thing that I just decided yesterday that I will be doing

[44:02] and that one day will be fully dedicated to my now one thing is different in this case you were saying that you enjoy raing and that's how I was a year ago where I di because I enjoyed it but now is the time to convert that into more professional structure and what that mean is I I have the experience I have the knowledge and somebody need that the foundation for quarterly learning the foundation for time management these are very foundational tactical thing that people are missing and they work so many hours

[44:42] because they couldn't say no to that extra work they couldn't decide between five thing the top two thing that they need to work on the other three is not something that they had to finish this weekend but they they end up working too many hours right so I I feel like I have that gift that I can give to other people but that require me to be more professional so that I can deliver it to them professional inds of the execution my own execution like finishing I'm I'm working on an ultimate uh time management guy if I don't finish it

[45:26] nobody can read it so I have to finish it and I will finish and and Lear it in next two weeks that I think I'm making good progress but that that that's exactly where I was going and that's exactly what I was talking to Zach as well that the speed of execution or making this a priority is something that been miss but amazing I'm kind a little bit ironic that you're struggling with this given that time management is your strength but this playing right but it's it's interesting to me but I think you're right I think everything you said

[45:58] is amazing you clearly have skills you're very experienced you're very smart a lot of people listening to you who look at you and you're like wow how come iing on those and you're a lot to give and all of that is true and yeah you're right it's it's all on you right it's on you to deliver that it's on you to it's on you to make it into the format that people can consume right it's Mak it's up it's on you to make sure you're enjoying it too right you don't want to do something you don't want to do and all of that sounds great

[46:31] like I see lots potential for you I I wish you luck thank you thank you Leo do you have a message to the audience yeah just follow your heart follow your guts what makes you happy listen to fewer people if that's what it takes learn to know yourself self-awareness and yeah just follow your passion and trust that things work out thank you so much Leo this conversation was amazing thank you thank you