Building a $1.2m Business- Kelvin's Story of Code, Career, and Entrepreneurship

[0:00] hello welcome and
[0:01] Namaste today we are meeting with Kelvin
[0:05] I know Kelvin for more than a year we
[0:07] met in Twitter we have done many spaces
[0:11] together Kelvin live in Nigeria he has
[0:16] done multiple jobs but now he has his
[0:19] own business and he's running one
[0:22] initiative of shipless JS uh JavaScript
[0:26] so with that I want to hand over Mike to
[0:29] Kelvin Kelvin please tell about yourself
[0:33] and then if you can give us a glimpse of
[0:36] how your typical day and week look like
[0:40] yeah for sure thank you V for having me
[0:43] here my name is Kelvin I am a web
[0:48] developer out of
[0:50] Nigeria I have been doing web
[0:52] development professionally since
[0:54] 2018 and I have done different types of
[0:58] software
[1:00] development but I settled for building
[1:03] stuff with JavaScript because I really
[1:05] like the beauty of the language so I am
[1:09] currently also the lead maintainer of a
[1:12] wonderful framework for building web
[1:14] software with
[1:16] JavaScript I also initiated a stack B on
[1:20] sales called the boring JavaScript stack
[1:22] because I want theas to focus more on
[1:26] Building Products than flexing what was
[1:30] trendy I like like I said before I run
[1:34] my own business now the sales carard
[1:37] company I've started way over like in
[1:40] 2020 when I buil sales.com so now I'm
[1:43] working on my third project called hack
[1:45] fish which is my own take on how to
[1:48] manage invoices as a Creator myself so a
[1:51] typical day for me it's depends so like
[1:56] I jokingly said I left my 9 to5 to work
[1:58] 24 hours my day can start literally
[2:01] anytime I want it to start but sometimes
[2:04] I'm so enthusiastic about the work I
[2:05] can't wait to get out of bed so by maybe
[2:08] 7 or sometimes 400 a.m. I'm awake
[2:12] working on something so I Circle between
[2:15] working on my project aish because we're
[2:18] going to launch on March 14 like to the
[2:22] better users like those that sign up for
[2:24] the weight
[2:25] list then I also work on open source
[2:29] because of course because I am the lead
[2:30] mainten of sales I look at issues try to
[2:33] do some triaging or work repr production
[2:37] and also the borrowing stack if so
[2:39] because I'm building hafish for the
[2:40] borrowing stack if there's anything that
[2:42] I see that is lacking in the framework
[2:44] or I made in hack fish I just extract
[2:47] and upload it to like the FR so everyone
[2:50] else can have it I also run a YouTube
[2:53] channel so in a week give or take I
[2:57] might have one episode to shoot with a
[2:58] guest scet kyt which is teach Kevin your
[3:01] thing so I would record the sessions
[3:04] then if the week I have to because the
[3:07] sessions go live every Monday so I like
[3:09] to edit on the Monday so I could watch I
[3:12] always watch the video from start to
[3:13] finish I don't fast forward or whatever
[3:15] I want to see everything
[3:16] because I like to be very detailed on
[3:19] the edits and I also learn from this
[3:21] sessions rewatching them really is good
[3:23] for me and I get to upload it and of
[3:25] course announce it and I share the
[3:27] tweets as well because I like to teach
[3:30] everything I know I like to share so
[3:32] Twitter is also one Avenue to do that
[3:35] and so yeah that's mostly it what I do
[3:38] like for the entire day and of course
[3:40] meetings always pop up and I do
[3:43] consultations as well so I had to talk
[3:45] with clients and also give them like
[3:48] feedback say yeah that's basically what
[3:50] I do in a day yeah I notice you do a lot
[3:54] of things right your business your
[3:58] repositories your open source your
[4:01] YouTube and Twitter so how do you manage
[4:03] your time do you follow any kind of me
[4:05] methods or how do you do that yeah so I
[4:10] don't have a fixed methodology there's
[4:13] no time management hack is just I have a
[4:17] so I use recast so there's this nice
[4:21] feature on recast called my schedule so
[4:24] I think it's an ad I don't know so what
[4:25] it does is reads for my Apple calendar
[4:29] and I don't really use the Apple
[4:30] calendar itself I use hey calendar from
[4:33] base camp or 37 signals but I actually
[4:37] connected that to be like an external as
[4:39] an external source to Apple calendar so
[4:41] when I just open my laptop first in the
[4:44] morning I first check my calendar what's
[4:45] up so I just type I open up rers and
[4:47] type Ms which is the shortcut I place to
[4:50] get me my shedule so I see what I need
[4:51] to do I also have a reminder on I also
[4:56] check if there are anything I need to do
[4:58] as well then what is the big umbrella of
[5:03] everything I do how I manage my work is
[5:05] on Bas cam I'm a big fan of Base Cam so
[5:07] base camp is a it's a take of project
[5:12] management
[5:13] tool plus SL plus calendar or anything
[5:17] you need to run like a project out of 37
[5:21] signals I've been using it for since
[5:22] 2020 I really love the software so I
[5:24] check what's on Base Cam so right now
[5:26] since I'm working on hackish if I say
[5:29] like my first wave of work will be on
[5:31] hackage features for example yesterday I
[5:33] shipped the marketing page I'll go on
[5:36] base camp and set the task I need to do
[5:39] so I do that and I just focus and finish
[5:43] up so may do an hour time block or what
[5:46] not then once I'm done then I move to
[5:49] the next thing that is of important so
[5:51] every time I'm working I'm always asking
[5:53] myself what because the thing is there's
[5:56] going to be a lot of things to do
[5:59] because time is finite so you need to
[6:01] figure out what is the thing that will
[6:02] move the needle I always ask what's the
[6:04] thing that I need to do now that's going
[6:05] to move the needle then I do that once I
[6:08] finish so mine is start and finish not
[6:11] like complete but make progress and have
[6:14] okay this is finished for today then I
[6:16] go on to the next things for for example
[6:18] days that I have to upload a video I
[6:21] start the day mostly with the edit of
[6:24] the video so I'm going to watch the
[6:26] entire one hour sessions do the edits
[6:28] then upload and that's finished but
[6:31] while it's uploading I could like okay
[6:33] let me check emails and see whats up who
[6:35] needs my attention let me check Discord
[6:37] because I run a community as well I want
[6:39] two communities actually the sales cast
[6:41] community and African Indie hackers as
[6:43] well I check whatsa check Twitter DMs I
[6:46] actually have a time to check those um
[6:48] channels because they they distractions
[6:50] they are not good for deep work so on
[6:53] Apple's reminder I set the time to check
[6:57] um telegram Twitter
[7:00] Discord at about
[7:02] 330 p.m. my time then emails is I check
[7:07] em twice 12:00 p.m. noon and also 5: in
[7:12] the evening because those are
[7:13] distractions so I need to set that time
[7:15] to go check them and I don't have I
[7:17] don't get notifications on my phone by
[7:20] choice so I need to consciously go check
[7:23] because I find um notifications
[7:25] distracting so that just it I try to
[7:27] focus on one thing finish then go to to
[7:29] the next and like that so there's no
[7:31] structure just what's important for me
[7:33] right now based on what's Happening so
[7:35] it's very contextual it's not um robotic
[7:40] sometimes I'll just start the day with
[7:41] doing nothing than seeing a movie
[7:43] because I don't want to work right now I
[7:46] want to work later so
[7:49] yeah you're saying that no structure but
[7:53] this is a solid structure you don't know
[7:55] you probably don't know how people are
[7:57] living their life right compared
[8:00] L and I guess you have solid discipline
[8:05] around different things uh it it's not
[8:09] easy to just not look for notification
[8:12] or whatever spaces that are going on or
[8:15] whatever YouTube shorts that are going
[8:17] on or when you're working on one thing
[8:21] there are five other ideas that comes
[8:24] and then it's not easy to stick with
[8:27] what you're doing yeah and finish so
[8:29] somehow so I don't know you always been
[8:33] like that or you change at some point or
[8:36] what I was worse than how I am now
[8:40] because before now I think now I am more
[8:43] active on social media than I was before
[8:45] like a couple of years ago I I don't
[8:48] like social media because I understand
[8:52] what it does to deep work and when you
[8:55] study people the people that do great
[8:57] work you find that at a point they don't
[9:00] like social media so for example
[9:03] Christopher Nolan who is like someone I
[9:05] am obsessed with right now because of
[9:07] the kind of movies he make Christopher
[9:09] Nolan don't have a mobile phone he's not
[9:13] on the internet but he one of the
[9:15] celebrated
[9:16] directors of our time and he does that
[9:21] because he knows that you cannot do work
[9:24] that really matters when you're too much
[9:27] in The Matrix like I call it so I like
[9:29] to unplug as much as possible so before
[9:33] now I had fewer social media accounts
[9:37] and I was active on fewer places now I
[9:39] have to be active on Twitter because
[9:40] Twitter is more like a business for me
[9:42] now and of course I run communi on
[9:44] Discord and emails like I said so before
[9:48] I was guilty of always checking emails
[9:50] but I read the book by Tim Ferris and he
[9:53] mentioned to set out time blocks to
[9:56] check your emails and I'm no stranger to
[9:58] the idea because I had the idea from
[10:00] somewhere else where like most times
[10:02] people the only way to deal with
[10:04] distraction is if you set time to be
[10:06] distracted because I know people they'll
[10:08] be like anytime I'm trying to do
[10:09] something something else always come up
[10:11] for me I just set that time to be
[10:12] distracted which are the times I said
[10:15] okay by 12 I'm going to check my email
[10:16] checking email is a distraction but
[10:18] since I've set the time to check it my
[10:20] mind can focus now and do the tax at
[10:23] hand because it's not yet 12 so when is
[10:25] 12 I go check my email I get distracted
[10:28] when is the time I said for Twitter go
[10:29] check Twitter and get distracted so
[10:31] setting out time for distraction remove
[10:33] it from the back of your mind oh what's
[10:35] am I missing out or something no you can
[10:37] always get to it later so that's been it
[10:39] for me if I have my way at a certain
[10:42] point I don't want social media because
[10:45] I feel like it gives us too much
[10:47] dopamine that are not real and it
[10:50] creates this symbiotic relationship that
[10:52] shouldn't
[10:53] exist you need to be off as much as
[10:56] possible so you could do deep work car
[10:58] Newport will say
[10:59] social media and all these notifications
[11:03] they just get in the way of deep
[11:04] work 100%
[11:07] 100% And the problem is I guess it take
[11:12] away your attention your time your
[11:14] energy is still people do it yes because
[11:19] that require them some kind of
[11:21] discipline and also some kind of
[11:23] futuristic Direction
[11:26] MH right so I want to jump into that now
[11:29] so you do have the direction I want to
[11:32] ask two part questions number
[11:35] one what is the future direction for you
[11:38] and how are you setting that yeah for
[11:41] sure so for me the future direction is
[11:44] to be
[11:47] profitable or to make my businesses um
[11:51] profitable so since 2020 I have started
[11:54] a couple of products that have a lot of
[11:56] potential they just need me to work on
[11:58] it because I have a say that nothing
[12:00] works you work all right so they need my
[12:03] complete attention to grow so I've been
[12:05] distracted by having a 9 to5 and trying
[12:08] to like conform to the system that you
[12:10] need a 9 to5 you have to be sustainable
[12:12] and all that jazz right now I am focused
[12:16] on bringing times 10 of the energy I
[12:19] gave in my jobs to work for myself so I
[12:23] want to make a comeback with sar.com
[12:26] which is my own Netflix for full star
[12:28] Javas
[12:30] developers then which was a tool I
[12:32] buil for JavaScript devs back in
[12:34] JavaScript devs I want to revive that
[12:36] make it way more profitable than it was
[12:38] when I launched 1.0 then by most the
[12:41] project I'm working on right now is hack
[12:43] fish which is I have been using it to
[12:47] send invoices myself like since I
[12:49] secretly launched it without announcing
[12:51] it to anybody I want it to be like the
[12:54] place where creators doing invoices like
[12:57] myself I have clients I have sponsors of
[13:00] tky so I just do everything from hackish
[13:03] so I want to make those to
[13:06] be in a month probably making like for a
[13:10] startle now before I get to my $1.2
[13:12] million a year goal to get like $10,000
[13:16] a year from all this including my
[13:18] sponsorships and also my consulting
[13:21] which is turning out to be lucrative
[13:22] because I have a very unique combination
[13:25] of skill sets that so those that pay
[13:29] mutation makes it a little bit valuable
[13:31] for different set of people so I want
[13:33] know do that so that's like my future
[13:35] like the next five years is to grow this
[13:37] businesses to make sure I never ever
[13:39] need a 95 because that always been the
[13:42] goal for me because I like working for
[13:44] myself I like working for my own terms
[13:46] and my own on the things that I care
[13:49] about because I find that I do my best
[13:51] work when I deeply care about it and not
[13:54] just trying to work for a paycheck yeah
[13:57] I want to grow my open source project
[13:59] the borrowing stack to make it the most
[14:04] enticing offering for anyone that want
[14:07] to
[14:08] build full stack products on JavaScript
[14:11] because it's really that good and I want
[14:14] more people to know it yeah so that's
[14:16] theion of course make sales really great
[14:18] again like sales should be synonymous to
[14:20] like rails and La it is but the J don't
[14:24] know it yet and that's my job to make
[14:26] sure they know it yeah
[14:29] wow you do have a drive you do have
[14:31] passion and you do believe in those
[14:33] products so I'm pretty confident that
[14:36] you will get there and also you're
[14:39] building such a good audience the size
[14:42] and the quality that which will help you
[14:45] get there yeah for sure thank you so
[14:48] let's dive into your transition from
[14:52] working 925 job to starting your own
[14:56] business so what was the thought process
[14:58] there
[14:59] and how did you do it yeah so the the
[15:03] thought process is this is what it's
[15:06] been I've always had this thought I've
[15:08] always wanted to do this but because of
[15:12] the need to to want stability I I confir
[15:16] and I was like one day I'm going to one
[15:18] day I'm going to all right so I've done
[15:20] a couple of job I've been at a couple of
[15:22] companies but the back of my mind I knew
[15:24] I wanted to do this work on the sales
[15:25] cast company fulltime build products for
[15:28] people that they use and they'll reward
[15:30] Me by paying for it but I kept getting
[15:33] the next job and the next job just to
[15:35] have like a safety cushion in terms of
[15:38] money all right because bills have to be
[15:40] paid so at my last job a couple of weeks
[15:43] before I was laid off I've already
[15:46] resigned in my mind because I wasn't
[15:48] motivated I find it I dreaded Mondays
[15:53] right when it's Mond when it's the
[15:55] weekend I'm happy when it's morning I'm
[15:57] like oh yeah see back to this right so
[16:01] when I was called like for the layoff I
[16:03] was happy really internally I didn't
[16:04] show it because why not you got to be
[16:06] like gloomy oh I'm being fired but I was
[16:08] happy because I was like since I
[16:11] couldn't take the step myself because I
[16:13] was being a coward in that instance life
[16:16] took the step for me and I just launched
[16:19] for it and I was like this is it no more
[16:23] seeking 9 to5 if I can't earn twice as
[16:27] what I was earning from mon from this
[16:28] job doing my own thing there something
[16:31] is definitely wrong because I do know
[16:33] that I've been able to build myself to
[16:36] such capacity that I shouldn't need a
[16:38] job to pay the bills and it's actually
[16:41] working right it was hard a couple of
[16:43] months right sometimes you'll be like oh
[16:45] you should just go apply for something
[16:47] else but even friends were like just
[16:49] take something about time I like no
[16:51] because I believe in Burning Bridges so
[16:54] a famous story that I learned about was
[16:57] this General where they were going to
[16:59] attack an yeah enemy and as soon as the
[17:03] soers stepped off the ship it burnt all
[17:06] the boats all the ships and his thought
[17:09] process was that if we don't win there's
[17:12] no going back so we just have to win and
[17:14] they ended up winning that battle so
[17:15] that's how it is for me when I do this
[17:17] sort of thing and that's why I announced
[17:19] it on Twitter so commit me because
[17:21] there's no shaking out of it it's it
[17:24] either works or it works there's no
[17:26] failure it's not an option here so I
[17:28] double down
[17:29] started working very long hour I started
[17:31] taking steps I started leveraging the
[17:36] what I've built over the years and it's
[17:39] paying off slowly but it's so promising
[17:42] because like I've had tky deals I've had
[17:45] Consulting gigs and I'm working on a
[17:47] secret project right now which is going
[17:49] to be my most ambitious thing ever and
[17:53] it's going to take me the entire year to
[17:54] actually deliver on it but it's going to
[17:56] be in phases but if I do it how I have
[17:59] it in my mind it should be able to just
[18:02] Skyrocket my income and also have a lot
[18:07] of side effects that I'm going to like
[18:09] because I don't like doing something
[18:11] that has one output I think life is too
[18:12] short to do that so when I'm going to
[18:15] take a step I want two or three or four
[18:18] or multiple outputs from just one action
[18:21] so I make sure that everything I do
[18:24] should have more output so I really
[18:25] tailored everything just like for
[18:27] example the stack which was the open
[18:29] source project I
[18:31] built it has an output to let me build
[18:33] hack fish it also have an output to let
[18:38] me Empower other JavaScript developers
[18:41] to build their own products on
[18:44] JavaScript and it also has an output for
[18:47] me to create courses on sales.com about
[18:49] it so you see three outputs and it's not
[18:53] is not a coincidence is all planned and
[18:55] that's just how I like to operate you
[18:58] your face your light your eyes all light
[19:01] up when you was talking about that
[19:03] secret project yeah we should all the
[19:07] best for that when you started to start
[19:09] your business initially it's typically
[19:12] hard to get some gigs and and Consulting
[19:15] opportunities was it difficult for you
[19:17] or how did you to approach that yeah it
[19:20] it is as always because so the thing is
[19:22] like my unique skill set is first of all
[19:24] I am like a sales expert because I've
[19:26] been using the framework for what 20 18
[19:29] up to this point and I'm now the lead
[19:30] maintainer so I have years of experience
[19:34] and context so that makes me very
[19:38] enticing for companies who want to do
[19:40] something with sales maybe upgrade the
[19:42] sales version or just need Consulting
[19:44] advice and it's a high profile role so
[19:48] it's it actually pays a lot because they
[19:50] need me so I'm coming in the capacity of
[19:52] a consultant not like a freelancer
[19:54] because of how I know the projects so
[19:57] sometimes these people find me
[19:59] most of the times so the one like I I
[20:02] want to be an authority on is Javascript
[20:05] performance by shipping less JavaScript
[20:07] because I feel like with good power come
[20:10] good responsibility JavaScript is good
[20:12] but you don't have to ship what you
[20:13] don't need to your users because when it
[20:15] gets to them whatever devices they on
[20:18] get to pay the cost of running your
[20:21] JavaScript so when it's not necessary
[20:23] don't share it so I thought it was
[20:25] common knowledge oned give it
[20:28] first talks called do you really need
[20:30] other JavaScript and people kept ask
[20:33] asking questions I like okay this isn't
[20:34] common place after all so I don't I just
[20:37] do like a Consulting service where I
[20:38] could go
[20:40] lecture the death teams in companies
[20:43] like maybe their offsite or what I'm
[20:45] actually have a book that I want to
[20:47] write but still the same topic she
[20:49] JavaScript it's going to be an ever
[20:51] living book on techniques that lets you
[20:53] just ship JavaScript in different
[20:54] scenarios but so the Consulting again
[20:57] like I said I don't like to have one
[20:59] output cons is going to of course pay
[21:01] the bills and also let me learn how
[21:02] different people and there different
[21:05] reasons for chipping in JavaScript your
[21:07] shipping and so that one hasn't really
[21:10] got in any client I only had one free
[21:14] assessment session which was really
[21:15] insightful because I get to see okay
[21:17] these are the things they were doing
[21:18] wrong like a paid client so right now
[21:21] the cons is mostly sales consulting or
[21:24] full stack javascrip Consulting that is
[21:26] that I get clients on and most times
[21:27] they reach out to me
[21:29] maybe they see me on like the sales
[21:30] website or they just do a quick Google
[21:33] search and maybe they watch a course on
[21:34] like sales.com and they get to me
[21:38] yeah you know one thing that I noticed
[21:40] that you have done many technology and
[21:42] framework I I think last year you was
[21:45] posting a lot about view um and you're
[21:48] very good with backend you've done so
[21:50] many other things right but what I'm
[21:53] noticing is that you double down on sale
[21:58] m in JavaScript and with a philosophy
[22:01] there yeah so in of pitching for 100
[22:04] different thing you figure that sale is
[22:07] your nedge where you was able to get the
[22:11] gigs and business and
[22:13] all so I I guess I wanted to highlight
[22:16] that as a message that you don't have to
[22:19] go after 10 different things you can
[22:23] build yourself in one thing in this case
[22:26] sale and get really good at it
[22:29] so that people recognize you as an
[22:31] expert and then you get more advanced
[22:34] level of gigs and projects yeah
[22:37] definitely absolutely you need
[22:39] to find a place to plant your feets like
[22:44] I call it because good teams take time
[22:47] and you want to play the long-term game
[22:49] I like playing the long-term game or as
[22:51] car newort will call it slow
[22:54] productivity so I can I've literally
[22:56] been doing sales for six years now
[22:58] and when I started I was advised that I
[23:01] was wasting my time the tech is outdated
[23:03] but like I tweeted a couple of hours ago
[23:06] before this podcast I was like sales
[23:09] it's 2024 and sales is still paying the
[23:12] bill right my first $50,000 on web dev
[23:16] was gotten from sales and it blew my
[23:19] mind how What was seen as unpopular was
[23:22] still in Dem mind that someone was able
[23:24] to I want to pay $50,000 for it right so
[23:28] yeah just find something you like that
[23:30] makes your eye lit up like it's been six
[23:32] years anytime I have to talk about sales
[23:34] I still get that Euphoria because it's
[23:37] just it's something I really crazy about
[23:39] and I can stay on something most time
[23:41] people get bored for the wrong
[23:43] reason when you get bored it doesn't
[23:45] mean you have to move from a particular
[23:47] thing you do you just need to find out
[23:49] other ways of doing the same thing so I
[23:52] can't get bored of doing sales because I
[23:54] found different ways to combine it so
[23:56] because of sales I found the boring
[23:58] stack because of the B stack I am doing
[24:01] something else so the same is so it's
[24:05] started with JavaScript then sales then
[24:08] everything else is just revolving around
[24:10] the but there are different ways to
[24:12] solve so I'm more excited about the
[24:14] problems I'm solving I'm trying to
[24:16] switch to a new technology because at a
[24:18] certain point the tech is always good
[24:20] you just need to find different ways to
[24:22] keep yourself excited about it and for
[24:26] me it's by building solutions that
[24:29] people need around the one thing so
[24:31] there's only one thing for me which is
[24:33] Sals and then I just have different ways
[24:35] to combine sales and that's why I can
[24:38] never get bought up with it
[24:41] yeah all right one more thing so how I
[24:47] know you you got into the job and then
[24:49] you left the job but many people are
[24:53] trying to get to their first job right
[24:58] how do did you get your first job and
[25:02] then what happened yeah so my first job
[25:05] was in 2018 it was a front end job it
[25:08] was what got me into view and one of the
[25:11] I like view because of how it was really
[25:13] good for me back then so I was literally
[25:16] reached out to by a young startup CEO
[25:20] back then who wanted like a Fred higher
[25:23] and he knew me back in school and he
[25:25] knew that okay I was doing web dev so
[25:27] when is startup was hiring he reached
[25:29] out to me all right and at the time I've
[25:32] already made my famous decision which I
[25:34] wrote about I blogged about of not
[25:37] continuing school because I felt like it
[25:39] was a waste of my time because of what I
[25:41] wanted to do so I bum that bridge as
[25:44] usual I'm good at burning those bridges
[25:46] and then that night I couldn't sleep
[25:48] because I was like okay you just made
[25:49] the greatest wrong decision of your life
[25:52] but I was like uh we'll see then I kept
[25:56] just learning and learning and just
[25:57] trying to grow myself I it was the time
[25:59] of the New Boston I don't know if it was
[26:01] like this YouTube channel where this guy
[26:04] just web there HTML CS I was learning
[26:07] that I was using Linda as well before
[26:08] LinkedIn got them and I just kept
[26:11] learning and learning and then the
[26:13] opportunity came so M my mentor is just
[26:15] be prepared so that when the opportunity
[26:17] comes you can grab it like very quickly
[26:20] so I was getting ready so I did like an
[26:22] on call interview so on the call when
[26:24] you called me that was where I did the
[26:25] mock interview or like the real deal we
[26:27] just asked a couple of questions
[26:29] and then that was it then I got access
[26:31] to G I got access to project I did not
[26:34] know view I had to learn view on the job
[26:37] I I have never used git before at the
[26:39] time I had to learn it everything felt
[26:40] like rocket science but I just kept at
[26:44] it and with the chaos and confusion I
[26:47] kept pushing through until I'm here yeah
[26:51] so that's how I got my first
[26:53] job and was that a Nigerian company or
[26:56] us company
[26:59] it was a Nigerian company yeah yeah I
[27:01] think they were VC funded at the time
[27:04] yeah okay and I'm assuming when you was
[27:07] learning and then when you went into
[27:10] this job it was like how you was
[27:13] explaining focus and discipline and um
[27:18] consistency and everything he was like
[27:22] that back then too yeah I've I've always
[27:25] been like this sadly I I didn't have a
[27:29] very exciting sh because I was always
[27:31] buried in one book or the other I've
[27:34] always known what I wanted I've always
[27:36] know I wanted to do stuff in fact at a
[27:38] very young age I wrote a, One things I
[27:42] want to do before I die on the top of
[27:44] the list back then I was like maybe 13
[27:46] or so I wrode starting my own company
[27:50] and the years later I get to go back
[27:53] every every couple of years I go back to
[27:55] the list I be like wow I have done this
[27:57] I did so before I knew anything about
[28:00] creating open source or whatever I wrote
[28:02] that I was going to create my own
[28:04] technology that I would use and people
[28:06] would use so when I saw that I've done
[28:09] it I like oh wow that's interesting so
[28:12] I've always been like this I've always
[28:13] been like yeah
[28:16] self-driven so when I so back then in
[28:20] school I start a lot of programming
[28:23] languages I wasn't even taught I was
[28:24] doing C+ I was teaching myself py and
[28:28] all that stuff so I've always wanted to
[28:30] like just cuz to me programming is
[28:33] problem solving and I love solving
[28:35] problems so I've always been like that
[28:37] so the same thing I took to the job my
[28:40] first job and I quickly learned a lot I
[28:43] started blogging on medium on problems I
[28:46] was
[28:47] solving and that was like my first entry
[28:50] into writing technical articles and yeah
[28:53] so that's it I do wanted to know what
[28:57] was your thought proc process behind
[28:59] leaving the college something happened
[29:02] or what was a very good student right so
[29:05] the thing is I have lots of man so one
[29:08] of them is I've mentioned a couple is I
[29:11] cannot do something I don't believe
[29:13] in so at a certain point I didn't
[29:16] believe the whole idea of getting a
[29:19] paper and how significant it was for the
[29:21] life that I
[29:23] wanted so I I sat down I had a thought I
[29:27] was like
[29:29] most times people think that what to
[29:32] worry about is the bad but I think what
[29:35] you should worry about are the good
[29:37] things because those good things are the
[29:40] enemy of the great and I want great
[29:43] getting a certificate is good everybody
[29:45] I know have it in fact everybody wants
[29:48] to have it but I want something great I
[29:50] want to be able to do something for my
[29:54] life I want to build businesses I want
[29:56] to solve problems and what the school
[29:58] was offered wasn't it because I've seen
[30:00] the output of every person that I've
[30:04] gone through before me I I'm big on
[30:07] outputs because I think those are just
[30:09] the only way to know what's up so I
[30:11] treat Life as a program input process
[30:15] output so if the input you're putting in
[30:17] doesn't give you the output you want
[30:19] then change your inputs so the input of
[30:22] school wasn't actually giving people the
[30:25] output that I wanted so I be like yeah
[30:27] okay we're not going to do this I think
[30:30] I know enough to learn on my own to be
[30:34] able to get the life I wanted because
[30:35] school wasn't teaching you what so I I
[30:38] read this book back in school what they
[30:40] w't teach you in school Chang my mind
[30:43] I'm a book one I read a lot so there are
[30:45] a lot of things school won't teach you
[30:46] that real life need for example school
[30:49] won't teach you communication like how
[30:50] to talk to people or negotiation or
[30:54] persuasion those are the skills you need
[30:56] in real life gool and teach you that so
[30:59] I don't know why I would do that so I
[31:01] rather just go learn from people who can
[31:03] teach me that so like I read the book
[31:06] How to Win Friends and Influence People
[31:08] twice in a single day because I was that
[31:11] hungry to
[31:13] learn and yeah I was like you know what
[31:16] I've always been like a freethinker I
[31:18] believe that we are capable of making
[31:20] our choices most people think that they
[31:23] need someone's opinion or or thumbs up
[31:27] for them to do anything anything me I've
[31:29] always gone the a direction you can the
[31:31] entire world can be against me but if I
[31:33] Believe in a Thing I for your head
[31:35] regardless because I go what my God says
[31:38] because so far it hasn't led me wrong
[31:40] and anytime I go against it I always
[31:42] regret it so I go what my God says
[31:45] whether it's looking Rosy or not I just
[31:47] follow it because I have developed an
[31:49] intuition over the years by studying
[31:51] good people thinking and reflecting and
[31:54] that was the top I was like school is
[31:55] not going to give me this and I was a
[31:57] betet it could have gone South and I
[31:59] would have regretted for the rest of my
[32:00] life but it did not because and the
[32:03] thing is when you make a decision like
[32:05] that you don't just say you're not going
[32:07] to go to school and then you rest on
[32:08] your laws and you be like oh yeah my
[32:11] thought is that I'm not going to go to
[32:12] school but I work so hard that I will
[32:16] school anyone that that went to school
[32:20] that was it so I had to do more than
[32:22] everybody else that was relying on the
[32:25] school system for your life and didn't
[32:27] worked out well it is still working out
[32:31] well all right I'm going to change the
[32:33] topic to a lighter one have you done
[32:36] DSA no I don't I I tried a couple of
[32:40] times it don't work out for me because I
[32:43] like to learn stuff that I can apply if
[32:45] I can't apply it doesn't make sense so I
[32:47] have tried I do data structures all the
[32:50] time because for example we all use AR
[32:52] race to data structure so I do data
[32:54] structures I do algorithm like anytime
[32:58] you write a business logic that's an
[32:59] Argo with him so it's good to study
[33:02] those stuff especially for job interview
[33:04] but I'm not taking any but at certain
[33:07] points I like to I read programming
[33:09] books and everything but to be like okay
[33:12] let me practice Thea I just like
[33:14] practicing by writing products that
[33:16] people will pay for it just validates
[33:19] that I can write good
[33:22] code when you grow up your company and
[33:25] then you start hiring people will you
[33:27] interview them on DSA not no never I
[33:30] don't believe in that stuff I don't
[33:32] believe it it shows whether you're a
[33:33] great engineer or not it's just like
[33:36] memorizing things in the book in school
[33:38] it just show that you memorize things in
[33:40] the book in school but I like to see how
[33:43] you think in real world problems
[33:47] yeah I I I posted I think last week or
[33:50] something I just thinking and then I
[33:52] recall that I probably have taken 500
[33:55] interviews in my life I have never asked
[33:59] a single DSA question that was funny and
[34:02] Powerful as well yeah that I never done
[34:05] it so many companies that I have worked
[34:08] for yeah yeah I don't know I think it's
[34:11] one of the stanza of us industry maybe
[34:15] it's I don't know for certain kind of
[34:16] job maybe it applies I'm an applications
[34:18] developer I'm not a system programmer so
[34:21] maybe it applies to them more for me I
[34:23] just build on the web my UI stuff it's
[34:25] not really that but I I also build sof
[34:29] stuff for programmers as well but I've
[34:31] never needed it so far so we'll
[34:33] see yeah yeah I I think the company like
[34:37] Google where their entire search Logic
[34:39] and display depends highly on algorithm
[34:43] for them it does make sense Amazon too
[34:46] how they display like they have the one
[34:48] of the powerful search which uh goes by
[34:51] tag and everything I think it makes
[34:52] sense for them but for what company that
[34:55] I have worked it was not rock science
[34:58] for us like we we didn't do that
[35:00] complicated software yeah and I think
[35:04] the more problem you solve the more so
[35:07] there are things you just have to so
[35:08] they are known unknowns and they are
[35:10] unknown unknowns right so you just have
[35:12] to be aware of of certain things okay
[35:14] you just have to be aware of okay these
[35:16] are like the whole the linked list like
[35:19] I saw a question by a friend of mine
[35:21] have you ever implemented a link list
[35:22] before I said nope I haven't I don't
[35:24] even know why I would need one but I'm
[35:26] aware of okay this is what a link list
[35:28] is okay that's cool then so just be
[35:31] aware of it just read broad where you
[35:34] have spare time just not
[35:36] to like so that you don't have too many
[35:38] unknown unknowns just be aware of it but
[35:41] just focus on the things that you do
[35:43] your day job so if you are writing those
[35:45] kind of if you're solving those kind of
[35:47] problems your day job you definitely
[35:49] have to learn it because you're solving
[35:51] it right yeah one of one of the question
[35:54] that I love the most is I asked these
[35:58] questions this question in my interviews
[36:00] that your application was working
[36:02] perfectly fine yesterday and you come
[36:06] back office and it's not working and
[36:08] it's production app what would you do
[36:10] what would be your steps to find where
[36:14] the problem is and how just the thought
[36:17] process right I'm not asking syntax I'm
[36:19] not asking anything else and just seeing
[36:24] how people think and how they go at
[36:28] different places some people start with
[36:30] servers some people will start with the
[36:33] database some people start with lock
[36:36] files it's amazing like it it give you
[36:39] the
[36:40] entire uh glimpse of how this person is
[36:44] thinking yeah in in difficult situations
[36:47] yeah
[36:49] definitely so I wanted to um jump into
[36:52] more fun topic okay uh
[36:55] about first I'm so proud of you that you
[36:59] find found time to go to swimming pool
[37:02] and that you did your swimming yes so
[37:06] you're working so many hours you're
[37:08] doing so many different things how do
[37:11] you take rest and how do you keep
[37:14] energized yourself so I want to ask you
[37:18] that and then we will talk about your
[37:21] habit of shipping F on Friday but let's
[37:24] start with this
[37:25] one yeah so so the thing is I don't
[37:29] really
[37:30] work all the time right but it depends
[37:35] on
[37:36] how the intensity of or the tasks I need
[37:39] to do there are days where you know what
[37:41] I need to do this today right there are
[37:43] days where I just lazy around I watch
[37:45] movies on Netflix or so I play the piano
[37:50] one of my B is to watch piano videos on
[37:54] YouTube or now that I'm obsess with film
[37:58] scoring I just watch like someone
[38:01] talking about Hanzo score or something
[38:03] so I have time to do all of that and
[38:06] those are the times where I just like my
[38:08] downtime right or I listen to a podcast
[38:11] I listen to a ton of Founders podcasts
[38:14] and how to take over the world podcast
[38:16] as well then on the weekends that's
[38:20] where I I'm not going to lie to you that
[38:22] sometimes I don't go out because I just
[38:24] do not want to step out of the house but
[38:26] when I do go for a swim for like maybe a
[38:29] couple of hours or maybe go to the
[38:31] cinema not for the movie but just sit
[38:34] there see people because I'm always
[38:36] indoors for sometimes I can be indoors
[38:38] for two three weeks straight without
[38:39] going out not healthy but I just I'm
[38:43] just into my work and all that but when
[38:47] I'm not working I I haven't read a
[38:49] physical Book for a while so I started
[38:52] one mine is the master but I had to stop
[38:55] because I needed to finish hack fish and
[38:57] it's like a buy book so I'm going to
[38:59] resume again after the launch but I'm
[39:02] always reading something online and
[39:04] stuff so I I know people don't say
[39:07] reading is a downtime but for me reading
[39:09] is actually good because I like reading
[39:12] a great deal movies swimming when I can
[39:17] and reading a book which is not supposed
[39:19] to be something you do to relax but it
[39:22] is for
[39:22] me yeah it Tak to a different world like
[39:26] all weing Nation yes it's definitely how
[39:30] about girlfriend and wife I know you're
[39:33] single but I'm asking okay about
[39:36] girlfriend what's you plan for marriage
[39:38] yeah definitely I do I do want to get
[39:41] married maybe like in the next year or
[39:43] two right
[39:45] yeah I am looking forward to that is
[39:48] something that is on my like um
[39:51] something I really want to get to
[39:52] because start growing a family and being
[39:55] like a husband and a dad I do want to
[39:59] girl as a first shower for some reason I
[40:01] don't know but I I already thought about
[40:03] all that so yeah it's going to have
[40:05] listen yeah and maybe I would invite you
[40:07] to Nigeria to attend the wedding oh wow
[40:11] yeah that would be my my my reason to to
[40:14] visit that yeah isit there so do you
[40:18] have a girlfriend then yes I do have a
[40:20] girlfriend okay okay okay I want to see
[40:25] you married
[40:27] and have kids and then do a Friday night
[40:34] deployment wow I I I don't know I feel
[40:39] like all my deployments have gone really
[40:41] good for me
[40:43] because I start to do risk myself so the
[40:46] chances of my deployment going bad for
[40:48] How I build my
[40:50] stuff I don't know it's pretty slow like
[40:53] it's very low because if I deploy my app
[40:56] to render if something goes bad which
[40:59] they have not they've not gone bad for
[41:01] since I've been deploying on Fridays I
[41:03] could just roll it back and be like okay
[41:05] that was that didn't work so it's very
[41:09] low risk so it gives me because I deploy
[41:11] every time I build something so like I
[41:14] actually deployed hafish again today so
[41:16] anytime so I like continuous deployment
[41:19] so anytime I make a new feature I'm
[41:21] literally releasing it to production
[41:22] there's no schedule of days or weeks or
[41:25] whatever I just deploy anytime work on
[41:27] something and he needs to go out I just
[41:29] deploy it so it sometimes it happens to
[41:32] be on a Friday right it's it's it's fine
[41:34] so if it doesn't work I don't go out
[41:37] most of the days anyway so I will fix it
[41:40] my weekend will be on making sure that
[41:42] work oh I just took the EAS way out and
[41:45] roll it
[41:46] back for me the biggest change happened
[41:49] when I became a
[41:51] manager and then I had a responsibility
[41:54] over my stakeholder as well as my team
[41:57] team and I really hated asking my team
[42:01] to work Saturday or Sunday because
[42:05] something have gone wrong yeah and
[42:08] that's when I started changing and uh
[42:11] then we came up with the rule that no
[42:13] deployment on Friday so if if the the
[42:17] Thursday is the the cut off so if
[42:19] something go wrong you have Friday to
[42:20] fix it but what has happened with us if
[42:24] we deployed something on Friday and then
[42:27] first it's a long
[42:29] night and then second we found something
[42:33] or customer found something on Saturday
[42:36] or Sunday and then we have to pull the
[42:38] team to fix it so I think I started
[42:41] changing when I became the manager and I
[42:44] had the responsibility over my team
[42:47] members yeah I think that's fair but if
[42:51] something go wrong I probably want to
[42:53] fix it so I don't know so yeah so maybe
[42:56] when I have employees I wouldn't want
[42:58] them to deploy on the weekend so yeah I
[43:01] think that's fair so for me I yeah it's
[43:04] it's all on me so I can deploy whenever
[43:06] I could literally be deploying something
[43:08] right now as we on
[43:10] theore but yeah so definitely it does
[43:13] make sense because of it's s like a
[43:14] culture so that things don't go bad yeah
[43:18] you spoke Your Love books and then you
[43:20] listen to founder podcast I would love
[43:23] to ask you if you have any
[43:24] recommendation on books and podcast
[43:29] yeah so on books a couple comes to mind
[43:32] but the one that always stands out if
[43:34] you want to do great work because I
[43:36] believe in studying people I think
[43:39] success is predictable and you can learn
[43:41] so much from the life of people that
[43:43] have been successful so I
[43:45] recommend Robert's grain's Mastery I've
[43:49] read the book three times I'm going to
[43:50] read it again it has the story of people
[43:53] that have done great work and it's just
[43:57] the author is just a a distinguished
[43:59] writer so he has this way of telling
[44:01] stories and drawing lessons from it so
[44:03] please read it it's a buy one but don't
[44:05] be detailed it for as long as you want
[44:08] Mastery by Robert grade very important
[44:11] for then for people who want to learn
[44:14] the art of persuasion also another book
[44:17] from Robert Green The Art of
[44:20] Seduction is an awesome book as well so
[44:22] you should have read those two books so
[44:24] let make it thir because 30 is my
[44:26] favorite number as Man thinket by James
[44:29] Allen awesome book too yeah those three
[44:32] books because the mind is very important
[44:34] for you to nure so what goes on in your
[44:37] mind affects everything else around you
[44:39] so you need to like learn about it so as
[44:42] a man thinker great book the book I'm
[44:44] going to on my on my stone mine is the
[44:47] master is the collection of the entire
[44:49] work of James Allen I think it's about
[44:52] what 19 books or so it's a very big book
[44:55] I don't advise if you're not to read
[44:57] like myself was was obsessed with book
[44:59] don't go for it go for think because
[45:02] it's like a small book
[45:05] yeah and then found podcast any specific
[45:09] that you like yes so Founders podcast I
[45:11] have found all give episode so the Diary
[45:16] of an advertising man you just Google
[45:20] Founders podcast or I think he did two
[45:22] or three sessions on him please read
[45:25] that listen to that then also
[45:28] Christopher Nolan George
[45:31] Lucas then I think I also like to the
[45:35] episode
[45:36] on Christian to as well
[45:42] yeah cool Have you listened to those
[45:45] this one is basically how they build it
[45:49] or how it was built something like that
[45:52] where they talk about one of the any one
[45:55] of the company and then they talk about
[45:58] the history they talk about the founder
[45:59] and how they built it m I think it's
[46:01] called how they built it yeah happens
[46:04] yeah I have a couple of podcast I listen
[46:06] to like I said how to take over the
[46:07] world that also really good my first
[46:10] million is good I have don't listen to
[46:12] much of them these days because I am
[46:14] just being so I think most days I start
[46:16] the days with listening to the game by
[46:20] Alex hosi yeah the game then I wrap up
[46:23] the day listen to the founders P any
[46:25] episode at all yeah the final post I
[46:28] think the last one I listened to was the
[46:30] one on
[46:31] Jay-Z is autobiography
[46:34] decoded it was really good
[46:37] yeah awesome all right this was a fun
[46:41] fun episode let's get into the last
[46:44] three questions okay we'll start with
[46:47] this is there any question that I did
[46:50] not ask but you want to
[46:52] answer no I think you ask really great
[46:56] questions and and yeah I think all is
[46:58] all covered yeah no questions at all
[47:01] that I want to answer I question for me
[47:04] do you have any question for me oh okay
[47:07] what's your favorite
[47:09] book my favorite book is this one one
[47:13] second yeah
[47:17] sure it's by Warren GES and the best
[47:22] damn sales book oh it's called that's a
[47:26] very ambitious
[47:29] title but it's all about goal setting
[47:32] right it's a sales book but he break
[47:35] down how you can set a big goal and
[47:39] break into pieces and and 16 steps to do
[47:43] it it's amazing highly I just added it
[47:46] to my Amazon cach it's definitely yeah
[47:50] it's so a book I want to get is called
[47:53] slow productivity by Cort so definitely
[47:56] going to get those two and see how that
[47:58] goes thank you for the
[48:01] recommendation you're most
[48:04] welcome okay all right so once again
[48:09] thank you so much for this episode my
[48:11] last question for
[48:13] you your message to the
[48:16] audience yeah so messages I'll start by
[48:20] saying
[48:21] that everything you want is on the other
[48:26] side of your
[48:28] mediocrity I don't see mediocrity as
[48:31] like a bad word is that at certain point
[48:33] we all have to transition from being
[48:35] mediocre to experts so the life you want
[48:38] the job you want or whatever you have to
[48:41] move to the other side of mediocrity
[48:44] which is you put in the work being
[48:46] realistic pushing yourself to be better
[48:50] because whatever you want wants you to
[48:53] be better for them for those things to
[48:54] come to you all right and to do all that
[48:57] to get better and all everything I do it
[49:01] in three steps right so you got to do
[49:04] stuff first of all you do stuff you like
[49:07] you you learn to write by writing right
[49:10] like you learn to code by coding so you
[49:12] do stuff you talk about them and then
[49:15] you do bigger stuff then you just repeat
[49:19] right but make sure you spend time doing
[49:20] number one it only makes number two have
[49:24] weight if not number two is not it's
[49:26] just going to be like everybody else
[49:28] because you've not spent time doing
[49:29] enough of number one which is to do
[49:31] stuff do interesting stuff and talk
[49:34] about it then go do more interesting
[49:36] stuff have much more to talk about
[49:39] yeah that was amazing I will use that I
[49:43] will definitely use that my biggest
[49:45] problem Kevin what I'm extremely good at
[49:49] my 925 job oh wow people talk really
[49:53] high about what I do there but when it
[49:56] comes to my side hustles where I have
[49:59] had a agency three people were working
[50:01] for me or I've done many other things
[50:04] and now for last 2 three years I'm
[50:06] trying to build this side hustle like
[50:09] coaching business I do feel like I do a
[50:11] mediocore job there but I'm really good
[50:15] at my 9 to5 job
[50:18] so I tell myself because of the timing
[50:22] because of the site thing I I let myself
[50:26] be an average person and uh allow myself
[50:30] to take more and more time but I feel
[50:32] like what you just said Has inspired me
[50:36] to actually go to the next step yeah my
[50:39] pleasure I'm glad rooting for you on
[50:42] your other side
[50:44] also
[50:45] yeah all right thank you so much Kelvin
[50:49] this was an amazing episode I know you
[50:53] for last 12 month but I learned so much
[50:57] more in just last one hour than I did
[51:00] before yeah and uh the best thing that I
[51:04] like about you is your focus your
[51:07] ability to avoid distraction your
[51:09] ability to stay on your course and and
[51:14] the drive that you have for yourself
[51:17] amazing thank you this was amazing I
[51:19] really love doing this with you thank
[51:21] you so much VOD thank you so
[51:25] much for