Nick Pickering Journey From Unpaid Intern to Senior Architect (Ep 34)

[0:00] welcome to Career Journey podcast I got
[0:02] connected with Nick on Twitter I saw
[0:06] he's doing a bunch of the courses and
[0:08] mentorship for programmers I thought
[0:11] it's it's a perfect match let's bring
[0:13] what Nick offer to the people and then
[0:16] your stories and how you manage your day
[0:19] so that's what I wanted to cover with
[0:22] that over to Nick so yeah so I'm a
[0:25] software engineer I've been developing
[0:27] software for over 10 years I've worked
[0:30] as a architect and uh engineering lead
[0:33] across several different Industries and
[0:35] finance HR Healthcare and along the way
[0:39] I've worked with a lot of Junior
[0:40] developers growing developers I myself
[0:42] was a growing developer surrounded by
[0:45] other Developers for drawing and I found
[0:48] I had a knack for helping people build
[0:50] the confidence and skills they needed to
[0:54] progress in their career to where they
[0:55] felt comfortable working as a software
[0:57] developer a lot of developers experience
[0:59] imposter syndrome they feel like they're
[1:01] not contributing to the team or to the
[1:03] company
[1:05] and they need help seeing understanding
[1:08] the business aspects of software
[1:09] development so that they can see that
[1:11] value that they actually provide so how
[1:13] do I help developers now I have a
[1:15] mentorship program where I work
[1:16] one-on-one with developers people who
[1:18] are learning to code people who are
[1:19] searching for jobs or hoping to start
[1:22] freelancing careers trying to find
[1:24] clients
[1:25] and I work with them through the
[1:28] different challenges that that presents
[1:29] there's a lot of material out there on
[1:33] the internet a lot of developers you
[1:34] know you can study online for free all
[1:37] everything that you need in order to
[1:39] become a programmer but information
[1:41] overload becomes a factor and you you're
[1:43] not sure which resources you ought to
[1:45] focus on you get stuck in a particular
[1:47] way and there's no there's no one to
[1:49] reach out to to help to help you get
[1:51] through it or to understand whether it
[1:53] actually needs to be gone through like
[1:55] there's there's a lot of different
[1:56] variation in paths into software
[1:58] development so one of the questions you
[1:59] ask was what type of software developers
[2:01] do I help I help all types of software
[2:04] developers like I mentioned my
[2:07] background is I've been in a lot of
[2:08] different types of companies I've worked
[2:10] with a lot of different types of
[2:11] Technology I've been in web development
[2:12] I've done game development I've done
[2:14] Android and iOS app development desktop
[2:18] and server software I've been across the
[2:20] board and one of the things that I like
[2:22] to do as someone in this space of
[2:24] helping people learn to code is make
[2:26] people aware of the options that are
[2:28] available to them
[2:29] a lot of people assume web development
[2:32] especially self-taught developers they
[2:34] assume web development or they assume
[2:36] Python and data science those are great
[2:38] career paths but there are a lot of
[2:40] options available to you so you can
[2:41] explore these different types of jobs
[2:44] these different type of roles
[2:46] and find what best best fits for you
[2:50] and I can help you build a custom
[2:53] curriculum to study just what you need
[2:57] in order to get into a job or to help
[2:59] find your first clients with that
[3:01] specular skill set it's been really fun
[3:03] I've been doing this for about a year
[3:05] now just about a year and meeting lots
[3:08] of different kinds of people and a lot
[3:09] of different backgrounds all over the
[3:11] all of the world internationally in
[3:13] India Africa Europe the US Canada
[3:16] there's a lot of different people all
[3:18] over the world with different scenarios
[3:20] different things that they want
[3:21] different types of skills that they're
[3:23] interested in learning and just helping
[3:25] them move forward in the directions that
[3:26] they want to go in so Nick one thing
[3:28] that I I guess I missed that from the
[3:32] reading from profile and your website
[3:34] that you are still working at mind me
[3:36] asking where do you work and what are
[3:39] the current technology that you're using
[3:40] I currently work in Contracting
[3:43] freelancing
[3:45] sort of way so I have a couple clients
[3:47] that I help write code for okay
[3:49] primarily my tech stack is.net and SQL
[3:53] Server yeah it's a it's a great Tech
[3:57] stack um I really enjoy it so that's
[3:59] that's my current Forte but I also have
[4:02] a lot of experience in PHP in my Sequel
[4:05] and JavaScript and node.js and all these
[4:08] different web development Technologies I
[4:09] also have a lot of experience in Python
[4:11] and Android development I have dabbled
[4:13] in some game development in C plus plus
[4:15] and other different Technologies there's
[4:17] a lot of a lot of modern development
[4:18] engines for game development that are
[4:20] really interesting so yeah my experience
[4:22] is a bit all over the place but
[4:23] currently I take my forte is in.net and
[4:25] you have 18 years total right about 18
[4:28] years now it's just 10. so for 10 years
[4:30] that's a lot I get around yeah yeah it's
[4:34] not like um you mentioned before the
[4:37] call today that you you like telling
[4:39] stories of people's whose careers have
[4:40] winded around and aren't quite sure what
[4:43] uh Direction they want to take and
[4:44] that's that's been my story I'm dabbling
[4:47] in everything I'm taste testing all
[4:49] these different things and I've gained
[4:51] so much knowledge that I found that now
[4:53] I really want to help other people
[4:54] four and and find what their specific
[4:57] space is with what what they would most
[4:59] enjoy doing
[5:03] nine to five job
[5:05] or have you done a nine to five job and
[5:08] then switched to
[5:09] um Contracting and freelancing yeah so I
[5:13] I started I'll go I'll go with my
[5:15] educational background and sort of how
[5:17] all this got started now let's go with
[5:19] that too
[5:20] um so I
[5:22] I started actually in high school
[5:24] learning to write code
[5:27] um I I always as a kid I'd really
[5:30] enjoyed video games I as a kid I was
[5:32] studying how they worked and taking them
[5:34] apart and learning uh learning all the
[5:37] different hacks and things that can go
[5:38] on in a video game
[5:40] and when I got into high school I was I
[5:43] was initially set on becoming a musician
[5:44] and I decided that it wasn't quite the
[5:47] lifestyle that I was looking for so I
[5:49] remembered my passion for for gaming and
[5:52] software technology and I started
[5:54] learning to code through an application
[5:57] called Alice and this was a tool
[6:01] developed by an MIT Professor called or
[6:04] not MIT Carnegie Mellon his name was
[6:07] Randy Posh and he has a really great
[6:08] story if you haven't heard of him
[6:11] he's worth going to check out but he
[6:12] developed this application called Alice
[6:14] that
[6:16] teaches kids and college students how to
[6:19] build how to build how to write code but
[6:23] also to build animations and build 3D
[6:26] models and things like this nature
[6:28] I really enjoyed that and that sort of
[6:30] sparked off my studying all the
[6:31] different software development languages
[6:33] I studied c i studied C plus plus and in
[6:36] Python
[6:38] I decided to go to a community college
[6:41] at my local Community College Study
[6:43] computer science there founded knack for
[6:45] tutoring and mentoring other students I
[6:49] was the type to stay up all night
[6:50] reading through the back chapters of the
[6:53] textbooks just because I was enjoying it
[6:54] so much you know chapters we wouldn't
[6:56] actually cover in class
[6:57] and a lot of a lot of people enjoyed
[6:59] working with me like helping them get
[7:01] caught up on the different aspects of
[7:03] object-oriented programming and these
[7:06] different things
[7:08] um so I went to college to study
[7:10] software development and uh
[7:13] I eventually moved from Community
[7:15] College to University uh to earn my
[7:18] four-year bachelor's degree
[7:21] and my experience at University was very
[7:23] Rocky
[7:24] I got started and found it was very
[7:28] challenging there were a lot of
[7:30] different courses that didn't apply
[7:32] directly to
[7:34] software development I was very good I
[7:36] was very naturally good at software
[7:37] development and I was helping lots of
[7:39] different people and then I got stuck in
[7:40] some courses that were not my forte at
[7:43] all and they became a barrier to me
[7:45] actually finishing my degree
[7:47] because that's part of the the bachelor
[7:49] degree you have to do all those exactly
[7:52] yeah yeah there was there were some um
[7:54] there were some requirements for the
[7:56] degree that were fairly difficult for me
[7:58] and I was
[8:00] as I transitioned from Community to
[8:02] University at the same time I landed
[8:04] myself an internship at a web
[8:06] development company a very small company
[8:08] with about four developers in total
[8:12] and I worked my way up the ranks there
[8:16] at the company from an unpaid intern up
[8:20] to senior web Architect by the time I
[8:22] was done with the company
[8:25] um and
[8:27] it was very interesting times uh those
[8:30] days I
[8:31] was
[8:33] studying on and off at University I had
[8:36] run into some trouble with some courses
[8:38] and had to take a break from school for
[8:40] a semester or two I would go in full
[8:42] time for work and then after a year or
[8:45] so I decided I was going to tackle it
[8:47] again and go back into University and go
[8:49] for the courses and at this point I had
[8:51] developed a reputation with the web
[8:53] development company to the point where
[8:55] I'd actually had a key to the office
[8:58] building and I would essentially go back
[9:02] and forth between the office building
[9:03] and classes
[9:05] to get my work done that I need to get
[9:08] done but also get the schoolwork that I
[9:09] need to get done
[9:12] so that was very busy very chaotic times
[9:16] I finished my bachelor's degree at
[9:18] University finally after a total of
[9:20] eight years
[9:22] from from start to finish it took eight
[9:25] years to finish the degree
[9:27] and at that point I
[9:30] started looking for
[9:32] you know a little bit higher pay work I
[9:35] had a wife we were planning kids soon
[9:37] and so we were looking for a little bit
[9:38] better a little bit better work
[9:41] environment
[9:43] I ended up planning a job a full-time
[9:46] job at a HR and payroll software company
[9:49] they developed
[9:52] they primarily developed tax assistance
[9:55] software so they would build software
[9:57] that could help manage
[9:59] manage and automate
[10:01] business tax calculations
[10:04] and manage filing forms to the
[10:07] governments and they had very
[10:09] um a very wide Suite of software to help
[10:13] collect data from employees that were
[10:16] necessary to populate tax forms and then
[10:18] automatically send those tax forms to
[10:20] the relevant government agencies and
[10:22] very very elaborate very complex
[10:24] processes um
[10:26] had a lot of fun working there worked my
[10:29] way up
[10:30] to an engineering lead there at the
[10:32] company
[10:34] okay
[10:35] worked in
[10:37] um worked on every single team at the
[10:40] company uh like I like bouncing around
[10:42] so I I the first team I worked with I
[10:46] I Grew From a developer to in to
[10:49] eventually leading that team
[10:51] and then I was asked to like bring my
[10:54] services over to a new team who was
[10:55] struggling a bit and so I took my took
[10:59] my perspective there started working
[11:01] with Junior developers and figuring out
[11:03] what the core problems were
[11:05] with the product itself you know the
[11:07] actual software and you know the Team
[11:09] Dynamics and so forth as I I end up
[11:12] learning a lot from that experience of
[11:13] switching around between teams and
[11:15] figuring out all kinds of different
[11:16] personalities and how they fit together
[11:18] and how you can sort of guide people to
[11:21] getting results uh from a from a
[11:24] business from a professional perspective
[11:26] but also like a personal perspective
[11:28] like feeling like you did good work
[11:29] during the day
[11:32] um
[11:33] right and so from there I I sort of got
[11:36] around and and made my mark on all the
[11:39] different pieces of the company and
[11:41] decided I was going to go out and take a
[11:44] big challenge for myself I I felt like
[11:46] I'd reached the ceiling there at the
[11:48] company
[11:49] and so I ended up working with a coach
[11:52] um to figure out what my next step would
[11:54] be because I had no idea I didn't know
[11:55] like I I was very well respected at this
[11:59] company and a lot of people I were
[12:01] talking to a lot of my friends at the
[12:02] company were like you're crazy too
[12:05] to go anywhere else like this is this is
[12:07] the perfect position for you everyone
[12:10] um you're very well respected and you're
[12:11] very well
[12:13] um positioned to to do big here
[12:16] but I felt like I had some bigger
[12:18] challenge to face
[12:20] um so I ended up working with a coach
[12:21] and finding
[12:25] cancer research as a topic of Interest
[12:29] and I actually spent a year while still
[12:31] working with the the HR and payroll
[12:33] Finance Company studying cancer research
[12:37] I eventually transitioned out to
[12:40] part-time with the with the company
[12:41] while I continued to study cancer
[12:44] research and try to find an angle for me
[12:46] to
[12:47] contribute to cancer research and cancer
[12:50] drug development
[12:53] I ended up finding work with a
[12:55] Healthcare Company
[12:56] who
[13:00] who had some experience improving
[13:03] clinical trials they were working on
[13:05] technology advanced AIS and advanced
[13:09] data analytics software to help improve
[13:13] the process of finding
[13:15] finding candidates for clinical trial
[13:17] drugs when was this when was this
[13:21] company
[13:21] it was about a year and a half ago okay
[13:25] recently because you said Ai and all
[13:28] yes yeah yeah there's definitely there's
[13:31] definitely AI involved with the company
[13:33] um a lot of a lot of raw data analytics
[13:35] a lot of Big Data
[13:37] um
[13:38] processing data from lots of different
[13:40] sources and combining it and putting it
[13:43] in a way that can be processed into
[13:45] meaningful analytics is a big part of
[13:47] what the company does
[13:49] um
[13:50] and yeah and so I was working with that
[13:54] company for for a while and and so I I
[13:57] was working with that company for a bit
[13:59] and at the same time I had got the itch
[14:02] to sort of test my test my Merit at
[14:05] starting my own business and so I
[14:09] started working with
[14:11] a couple different companies in a
[14:13] Contracting freelancing capacity just
[14:16] helping them
[14:17] make progress on their development help
[14:20] augment their development teams and
[14:22] just raw software development nothing
[14:25] too nothing too crazy
[14:28] I
[14:30] found myself missing because I was
[14:33] networking as a freelancer I was working
[14:34] alone I was working sort of
[14:37] um
[14:37] directly on software all day not really
[14:39] working with a ton of people not really
[14:40] in a leadership capacity or really even
[14:43] in the team capacity it was very much it
[14:45] was very lonely being a freelancer
[14:49] um
[14:50] so I decided to start building a
[14:52] community and start teaching software
[14:54] development and start teaching the
[14:56] business of software development
[14:58] and I wasn't sure exactly which
[14:59] direction I was going am I going to am I
[15:02] going to work with new developers and
[15:04] become sort of a teacher Mentor am I
[15:07] going to
[15:09] start a boot camp or am I going to start
[15:12] training programs
[15:15] and effectively I'm still at a point
[15:17] where I'm exploring those different
[15:18] concepts okay I've I've mentored a lot
[15:22] of people paid in free to different
[15:26] capacities
[15:27] helping developers build a curriculum
[15:30] for
[15:32] what they want to do with their careers
[15:36] I really enjoyed working with one
[15:38] particular student who
[15:40] was really interested in site
[15:42] reliability engineering this is
[15:44] something that I hadn't really deeply
[15:45] explored myself the field of devops and
[15:48] sres
[15:50] and so I had to learn a bit to be able
[15:52] to help her move forward in the
[15:55] direction that she wanted to go
[15:56] so that was particularly interesting
[15:59] um
[16:00] student and I also ended up working with
[16:02] a student who suffered from a pretty
[16:06] severe memory loss condition
[16:09] the student had a lot of great technical
[16:11] skill and they really wanted to start a
[16:13] freelancing business
[16:14] they wanted to do software development
[16:16] for companies as a freelancer
[16:18] and so that was just a really
[16:20] interesting interesting person to get to
[16:23] know and to help move forward with the
[16:25] different challenges that they have
[16:27] [Music]
[16:30] to to
[16:31] becoming productive and and starting
[16:34] reaching their goal of becoming a
[16:36] software developer
[16:37] [Music]
[16:39] and so to to summarize the the question
[16:43] the initial question I think sort of the
[16:45] the winding career how did I get started
[16:48] here and how did I come up to where I am
[16:51] I I
[16:52] always knew I enjoyed software
[16:55] development and I from a young age I
[16:58] felt like I had a good knack for it I've
[17:00] always sort of been good at mentoring
[17:01] and teaching and and I I feel like my my
[17:05] strong suit is I I'm a great listener I
[17:07] can help I can help listen to your story
[17:10] and advise ways to sort of overcome
[17:13] challenges or you know sometimes people
[17:16] just need someone to listen to they
[17:17] don't really need a solution
[17:21] [Music]
[17:22] um and now I've gone all over the place
[17:26] I've worked in all kinds of different
[17:27] Technologies all kinds of different
[17:29] companies all kinds of different
[17:30] capacities
[17:31] and I've got a lot of experience in the
[17:33] wide range of things
[17:35] and so I feel like I can use that sort
[17:38] of
[17:39] raw
[17:41] raw skill that I have that I feel like
[17:43] that comes naturally to me is because
[17:45] being someone who can mentor and teach
[17:47] and and train
[17:49] and my goal now is to sort of make make
[17:53] a career of that
[17:55] that's that's the direction I'm moving
[17:57] in currently
[17:59] that's perfect so thank you so much for
[18:02] sharing this this this is the part that
[18:04] I love about this career Journey podcast
[18:06] that it's just 20 minutes that we are
[18:09] talking and I know a lot about you and
[18:12] uh your inspiring journey I have a page
[18:14] full of notes right
[18:17] um
[18:18] wow
[18:19] so so you when you was in high school
[18:22] game development then Community College
[18:27] then uh University
[18:29] then a internship that you work so hard
[18:34] that they gave you
[18:36] um a full-time job then Senior then the
[18:39] keys of the building
[18:41] and then you talk about a coach I I miss
[18:45] that you hired a coach or you met a
[18:47] coach I I hired a coach at the time that
[18:50] I was working with the HR and Finance
[18:53] Company because I was doing so well at
[18:55] the company and I was feeling a little
[18:57] stuck like I feel like I didn't know
[18:59] which direction I was going I felt like
[19:00] I wasn't reaching my potential so I
[19:03] ended up working with a coach for about
[19:04] a year to sort of discover cancer
[19:06] research as a as an Avenue of interest
[19:08] for for me to pursue okay yeah and I I'm
[19:13] assuming that's a paid kind of
[19:15] Engagement with that coach it was yes
[19:18] yeah yeah go to costly but really
[19:21] helpful I always promote that and there
[19:24] are three type of Engagement that you
[19:25] can do with a coach so coach mentors and
[19:29] then counselor and they all are amazing
[19:32] yeah I agree I agree
[19:36] um so you you went there and then you
[19:38] had this um
[19:39] your clinical trial and then you started
[19:43] your freelancing thing and it's
[19:46] fascinating that about that 10 years
[19:49] Mark I also started a part-time thing so
[19:54] I will share quickly my story that I
[19:59] started in 2000 and then in 2010
[20:03] um
[20:04] by then I was working with real clients
[20:06] as like uh
[20:09] um some part-time work and then one of
[20:12] my clients said I'm working with this
[20:14] company
[20:15] who are not delivering
[20:17] would you like to take that job and you
[20:19] do it
[20:21] um
[20:21] and what for that I have to kind of hire
[20:25] people so I did I had three offshore web
[20:28] developer and then set up the whole
[20:31] engagement whole workflow and everything
[20:33] a workflow is in how these
[20:37] um of your people will set up their
[20:39] computer to Source control to work uh
[20:45] jira and all it's a complete process and
[20:48] we run it for like 10 years
[20:51] but then I couldn't take it to the next
[20:54] level and I I think um that's
[20:57] that's something that I have to reflect
[20:59] uh too often now
[21:02] that I was too afraid that if I make it
[21:05] too big what will happen to my full-time
[21:08] job because I love my full-time job I
[21:11] get so much experience and now
[21:13] this is something completely new for
[21:15] last one year I mean I've been writing
[21:18] for four years but last one year is
[21:20] magical
[21:21] after joining ship 3430 and I get the
[21:25] same kind of feeling that this will
[21:26] become very big and that feeling of
[21:31] something that whatever I have to leave
[21:34] the job but I think this time I will be
[21:37] ready uh let's see
[21:39] all right so
[21:41] um
[21:42] one more follow-up questions on your
[21:44] journey uh yes so basically after the
[21:47] freelancing you started helping people
[21:49] and you mentioned toys
[21:52] um that you build curriculum for the
[21:55] developer based on their need what you
[21:57] mean by that and do you also create the
[22:02] content for those custom curriculum
[22:05] right so I tend to work with people who
[22:08] have some
[22:10] some people have an idea of what they
[22:12] want to do what kind of software they
[22:14] want to build what kind of companies
[22:15] they want to work for
[22:17] and in those cases I can go research the
[22:21] open job postings for those companies
[22:23] the open job postings for those types of
[22:25] roles and I can see the skills that are
[22:26] necessary
[22:28] for those particular positions
[22:31] then I can also take what I know about
[22:33] that person what skills they already
[22:35] have what skills they need to fill the
[22:37] gap between where they are and where
[22:39] they need to be in order to successfully
[22:41] apply to a job in that of that caliber
[22:44] and I I look at that Gap and I build I
[22:48] go I find content for the most part I
[22:51] find content that help will help that
[22:54] person fill that Gap and I help them
[22:56] through filling those gaps
[22:58] there are some cases where I don't find
[23:01] resources that are quality enough
[23:03] to fill that Gap and I will go even if
[23:06] I'm not an expert in the language I'll
[23:07] go study it myself and I will go find
[23:10] what I need to know so that I can build
[23:12] the content in order to help them move
[23:15] through
[23:17] um
[23:18] yeah wow
[23:21] yes it's very it's very intensive I I
[23:24] really enjoy just learning everything so
[23:27] it's it's a benefit to me but it's also
[23:30] um it's I I like to think of it as a
[23:33] last mile approach I don't know if
[23:34] you're familiar with
[23:36] um mail service so there's
[23:39] 80 of the mail coming from uh a post
[23:42] office you know is very traditional very
[23:45] easy to get out
[23:47] um but they're
[23:49] there are homes there are neighborhoods
[23:50] that are very out in the woods they're
[23:53] very distant
[23:54] they're very difficult to get to so
[23:56] they're actually pop-up companies that
[23:57] will help the post office
[24:00] take the mail from a point where it's
[24:03] cost efficient for a post office to get
[24:05] to and the the this last mile company
[24:08] will take that mail from that point out
[24:10] to the more difficult place to get to
[24:13] um
[24:14] so I consider myself something like that
[24:16] like there are so many resources out
[24:19] there for someone to become a software
[24:20] developer there's so many fully training
[24:22] there's so many free training programs
[24:24] there's so many boot camps that exist
[24:26] today there's so many online courses and
[24:29] training programs if you want to go buy
[24:31] a course or training program to go learn
[24:33] a skill you can do that yeah my the the
[24:37] the Gap that I'm feeling is people who
[24:40] aren't sure what they need who aren't
[24:45] sure where they're going necessarily
[24:47] or people who do have an idea where they
[24:49] want to go but they don't know how to
[24:51] get there
[24:52] and there's not really a course or a
[24:57] training program or a boot camp that's
[24:59] going to help someone figure out
[25:01] where they where they're trying to go
[25:03] exactly
[25:05] that's where the mentorship program that
[25:07] I offer comes in is is very personalized
[25:10] it's very one-on-one it's it's me and
[25:13] the student and we talk through
[25:15] what kind of what kind of developer do
[25:18] they want to be what kind of company do
[25:19] they want to work for and we avoid any
[25:23] kind of fluff or unnecessary content or
[25:26] any kind of burden on that person to get
[25:30] to the skill sets that they need in
[25:32] order to become the developer that
[25:34] they'd like to be
[25:37] well
[25:38] thank you for explaining that that
[25:40] entire process that's amazing and I
[25:44] think we will watch get a clear idea of
[25:47] what this means to them one thing that I
[25:49] didn't see on your website or your
[25:52] profile uh the pricing information now I
[25:55] guess I understand why it was that way
[25:58] because you're giving the customer
[26:00] custom kind of plan for each person it's
[26:05] not an online course that you can just
[26:07] buy and it's same for everyone exactly
[26:10] yeah so
[26:11] the mentorship training program is a
[26:14] very customized pricing based on the
[26:17] demand that each client needs that each
[26:19] student needs some students need
[26:23] very Hands-On assistance that especially
[26:26] at the start you know they've got to
[26:28] find a training like we've got to
[26:30] understand what type of skills they want
[26:32] to build we've got to build the
[26:34] curriculum we've got to find the content
[26:36] to help them get the skills that they
[26:38] need and sometimes they need content
[26:41] that doesn't exist and that's a whole
[26:42] different layer of assistance
[26:46] um
[26:47] and so the way that I price the the
[26:49] program is just based on the amount of
[26:51] need that a particular student needs
[26:54] um to get to where they're trying to go
[26:58] and um
[27:00] do you want to give an idea of what kind
[27:04] of prices are there it's all up to you
[27:07] um yeah I'll give some I'll give some
[27:10] insight so
[27:11] I I want to be able to help as many
[27:14] people as possible
[27:15] and so I priced the program based on
[27:18] need okay and that allows me to help
[27:24] people who
[27:25] maybe can't afford the program at all I
[27:28] have a few slots in the mentorship
[27:29] program I call pro bono where there's
[27:32] astute there's I I have a lot of
[27:34] students who are very poor off who don't
[27:37] have consistent access to technology
[27:39] they don't have laptops and internet
[27:41] access it's shaky these these types of
[27:43] situations these people and have shown
[27:47] real technical skill like they can
[27:48] whiteboard computer science problems
[27:50] they just don't have a computer to write
[27:52] the code to test them out like really
[27:54] intelligent people who are stuck in a
[27:56] really poor situation
[27:58] um
[27:59] I I help these people out for free
[28:01] obviously they can't afford they can't
[28:04] afford anything more
[28:05] for
[28:07] people in a little bit better off
[28:08] situations I take an understanding of
[28:11] you know what they're currently doing
[28:12] are they currently working as a software
[28:14] developer looking to become a freelancer
[28:17] and what sort of Target Revenue can they
[28:19] expect to take as a freelancer and I
[28:22] take the difference of what they're
[28:24] making and what they could make or what
[28:27] I can help them make and I and I price
[28:31] the program based on a fraction of that
[28:32] difference so that developers can expect
[28:36] to make the full Return of the cost of
[28:39] the program working with me within a
[28:41] certain amount of time I like to price
[28:42] it at about a year
[28:43] currently
[28:45] um but essentially you can expect to
[28:47] make your money back working with me
[28:49] after a certain amount of time about it
[28:51] about a year
[28:52] [Music]
[28:54] I have I have a few of the Google home
[28:56] devices too so
[28:58] yeah
[29:00] the money with that but yeah in case of
[29:03] the fraction of the Gap um between what
[29:06] they're earning today and in future is
[29:08] that a
[29:09] is that it's the money that they will
[29:13] pay once they get into the new job or
[29:16] they they still
[29:18] paying you on now
[29:22] yeah so the mentorship program currently
[29:24] I I accept payment up front
[29:28] okay I am working on ways to try to
[29:32] provide training
[29:34] for payment after a person becomes a
[29:38] software developer because gains a
[29:40] salary and then can sort of pay back the
[29:42] training
[29:43] um that actually becomes a little
[29:45] complex
[29:46] great right and for
[29:49] for international work
[29:52] and I I say this because I could offer a
[29:54] program like that I could apply for
[29:58] um I could apply for the
[30:01] the licensing needed to do that for U.S
[30:04] based students when I'm based in the
[30:06] United States
[30:07] but making that same offer to students
[30:09] in Africa for example or in India or
[30:13] um in Europe there's a lot of
[30:15] complexities with the tax the tax codes
[30:17] and the legalities of different things
[30:19] and so I've not quite made my foray into
[30:22] that offering
[30:25] offering training for a promised salary
[30:28] or a future salary but that is
[30:30] definitely something I'm interested in
[30:32] exploring in the future as sort of this
[30:34] program gains momentum
[30:38] that's awesome
[30:39] again thank you so much for sharing all
[30:41] that information so
[30:44] um I see some
[30:47] these are some of the things that I'm
[30:48] also trying to do with the where I'm
[30:51] going and for about a month now
[30:55] but I I share rate uh last one year
[30:59] after joining the ship 3430 has been
[31:01] incredible so my
[31:04] um I'm thinking in quarters so I will
[31:06] explain that the first the second
[31:08] quarter is when I joined the ship 34 30.
[31:11] and it completely changed how I think
[31:13] about the content
[31:15] um and they they helped me understand
[31:18] that one topic one person one outcome
[31:24] 400 word that's it before that I was
[31:27] trying to create a world in one topic
[31:30] like I'm gonna teach the entire task
[31:33] management in just one and no wonder
[31:35] your English people was
[31:38] um listening to that or reading to that
[31:40] say hello
[31:41] hello at least come here
[31:45] you're already in the picture
[31:47] hello my daughter I have a son who is in
[31:51] college and then a daughter who is six
[31:54] in five-year-old son and a
[31:56] three-year-old daughter so
[31:57] congratulations It's Only the Young ages
[32:02] so um so that was my first uh second
[32:05] quarter the third quarter is where I was
[32:09] able to apply some of the transferable
[32:10] skills that I have in my 20 year career
[32:14] to writing and never able to make the
[32:17] connection before but once I made that
[32:19] connection that as a leader in my
[32:24] corporate world I have certain ex
[32:27] experience
[32:28] um whether it is whether it is giving
[32:31] training to
[32:33] inner The Insider stuff when we launch
[32:36] 80 a intranet for 80 000 people right we
[32:40] we conducted all the training we can we
[32:42] I was the one who arranged those big
[32:45] plans uh training plans and uh
[32:50] the curriculum and all that
[32:53] um so anyway I was able to make that
[32:56] realization and in the fourth quarter I
[32:59] was able to make some products such as
[33:01] quarterly cunning workbook I was
[33:04] listening to one of the one of the
[33:05] things that you're sharing the how you
[33:08] create the curriculum and I have an
[33:10] email course and I think it's date four
[33:14] is when I suggest some of those things
[33:16] to them like go go find
[33:20] the need of the next job that you are
[33:23] trying to shoot for and compare and find
[33:25] the Gap so I created that course as well
[33:28] and a newsletter
[33:30] and then
[33:32] um my community this year 30 for 30
[33:35] Community keep pushing me for yes you
[33:38] got it got to a place but now you have
[33:41] to go find that one person who will Who
[33:44] you will be helping so instead of
[33:45] helping entire world with goal setting
[33:48] find that one person so I selected web
[33:52] developer because that that was my
[33:54] background that's how I started and then
[33:57] when I started when I selected them I
[34:01] started meeting with them
[34:03] and
[34:05] my first realization was exactly how you
[34:08] were saying they have ton of material
[34:11] like hundreds of free websites those
[34:14] things was not exist when I started
[34:17] but they have a ton and ton of
[34:20] experience and I see two type of people
[34:22] one is zero to one you've experience who
[34:26] are just starting they're just some some
[34:28] of these people
[34:30] um have the material and
[34:34] they want to get to their first job
[34:38] and these people are experiencing the
[34:41] discipline
[34:42] and and the ability to pick one of the
[34:46] course just pick one course and focus on
[34:49] that for a quarter and then pick the
[34:52] next thing so I after I realized that I
[34:55] started suggesting start with HTML
[34:58] CSS and JavaScript forget everything
[35:01] else forget everything else that can
[35:04] distract you just focus on these three
[35:06] and I would suggest W3 web
[35:12] or free code pre-code website
[35:16] um those are the two that I suggest and
[35:21] but
[35:22] um like you said there are people from
[35:24] Nigeria of I mean Africa
[35:27] um and then India
[35:30] um those are the most the people that
[35:32] I'm interacting with who are reaching
[35:35] out to me and I'm fascinated how how
[35:38] many people go to these spaces go and
[35:41] then have courage to send you DM and
[35:43] then have courage to jump on call with
[35:46] you so that's fascinating
[35:48] everything that I'm doing in this order
[35:50] is completely free I'm not asking for
[35:52] anybody but in return I'm learning
[35:56] problem this set of people are facing
[35:59] the second set of people are the one who
[36:02] is from like three years to five year
[36:04] experience and they are feeling stuck
[36:06] and I you said in your your journey as
[36:10] well that there was a time at this
[36:15] HR payroll place that's where you you
[36:18] started feeling stuck so that was my
[36:22] original original thing that once you
[36:26] are longer in the same role
[36:30] you feel stuck
[36:32] and that's where that course that I'm
[36:34] talking about email courses in the
[36:36] picture and then the finally I also know
[36:39] um at a very high level that the people
[36:43] from zero to one new experience are not
[36:45] the people who can pay you
[36:47] I don't even have a job the people from
[36:49] three to five years of experience are
[36:52] the people who
[36:54] have a much more clear Direction and not
[36:57] Foundation I would say not the direction
[36:59] the foundation and they also have the
[37:01] money and they're the one who who you
[37:06] can kind of do a really custom help uh
[37:09] take them to the next level and I'm
[37:12] hoping that's the audience I will be
[37:15] able to create something for a paid
[37:18] program and then the audience who are
[37:20] zero to one year experience I will
[37:22] provide them everything for free and
[37:24] hopefully once they have the job in set
[37:26] and then settle into the job
[37:29] we will be in touch and then I can help
[37:32] them going to the next level and that
[37:34] they could join the paid program at that
[37:36] point yeah that sounds really good one
[37:39] thing that you mentioned that I want to
[37:40] touch on is you know you were you had
[37:44] been responsible for
[37:46] setting up training for large groups of
[37:49] people and when you were starting to go
[37:51] into business you had this idea that
[37:53] you've got to find that one person and
[37:55] figure out what their problem is and
[37:57] solve that problem
[37:58] when I was getting into this I had
[38:01] looked around and see and looked at what
[38:03] other people were doing and they were
[38:04] creating courses that covered the
[38:06] broadest topics and yeah and I was like
[38:08] I physically couldn't do that I could I
[38:11] couldn't create I couldn't spend a lot
[38:12] of time creating something that I didn't
[38:14] know if it solved a problem for a
[38:16] particular person or not and so that's
[38:19] why I started this whole journey with
[38:20] the mentorship program was like I need
[38:22] to talk to people I need to figure out
[38:24] what their specific problems are and
[38:25] maybe to help them move forward yeah and
[38:28] so that's sort of where I am now is
[38:29] working with people one-on-one trying to
[38:31] find patterns and and problems and you
[38:34] know if there's a if there's a pattern
[38:35] that emerges where hey a course that
[38:38] doesn't exist that could exist would
[38:40] help a lot of people that's when I would
[38:42] decide to build that course
[38:45] um so that's that's one thing I wanted
[38:47] to touch on
[38:48] um
[38:49] and then I have somebody named Marcio he
[38:51] was on my podcast
[38:54] um he helped course creator go from
[38:57] like ten thousand fifty thousand cell to
[38:59] six figure in six months
[39:02] uh he said two things number one is uh
[39:05] if you create a program that apply to
[39:07] everyone people can buy you're creating
[39:10] a program that people can buy for Ten
[39:12] Dollar on udemy
[39:14] and then the second thing he said that
[39:17] unless you find that one problem that
[39:20] keeping people awake at 2 am
[39:24] e you can create something that people
[39:27] will go after so you have to find that
[39:30] two o'clock problem
[39:32] what keeping that that set of audience
[39:35] awake at 2K 2 A.M sorry exactly yeah and
[39:39] so I actually have a habit of actually
[39:40] talking to people at 2AM so
[39:43] I I talk to people all over the world
[39:45] and I'm always working so I'm I'm
[39:47] constantly talking taking calls and
[39:49] learning from people and sometimes that
[39:51] happens to be around 2 am say physically
[39:53] keeping them up at night
[39:55] it's big I have a feeling that together
[39:57] we can go in the journey I am so happy
[40:00] that we got connected because looks like
[40:03] we are in the same Journey the same path
[40:05] of creating something that will help
[40:07] this set of audience of the set of
[40:10] people I'm
[40:12] so I will share everything that I will
[40:14] learn I'm kind of two-step behind you
[40:16] you're already way ahead with your
[40:19] practice with your with your experience
[40:22] and I'm behind you so I'll
[40:26] learn everything from you and I will
[40:28] share everything I know and I will learn
[40:31] that's awesome yeah I think I agree I
[40:33] think we're both on the same path and
[40:34] one thing that I wanted to touch on with
[40:37] you just real quick is
[40:39] um you mentioned sort of the two
[40:40] different categories you have zero to
[40:41] one year of experience people who who
[40:43] can't afford as much uh help and
[40:46] training sort of up front
[40:48] and then you have the three to five
[40:49] years experience who who have a clearer
[40:52] idea of what they want and can afford
[40:54] training and customized help
[40:56] one of the things that I'm looking to do
[40:59] in the near future is
[41:02] establish Partnerships with some
[41:04] corporate Partners I already have a few
[41:06] who may be interested essentially having
[41:09] them
[41:12] pay up front to conduct the training for
[41:15] these people who are zero to one years
[41:17] of experience to bring them in
[41:20] and
[41:23] work with them at that stage and
[41:25] essentially I am
[41:28] I'm somewhat dedicated to the people who
[41:30] are very new to software development who
[41:34] are really stuck and can't figure out
[41:36] where to go and helping them find a foot
[41:39] in the door in the tech industry
[41:42] and I think that by partnering with
[41:44] companies who are willing to work with
[41:46] less experienced software developers I
[41:49] can build developers up to a point where
[41:51] they can be successful in a company like
[41:52] that and that will get their foot in the
[41:55] door and then they can build their
[41:56] careers from there
[41:58] um so I I just wanted to touch on that
[42:00] too like I have I have a lot of ideas
[42:02] working in the future and so I
[42:04] definitely want to keep in touch with
[42:05] you and the different types of projects
[42:06] that you're working on
[42:08] that's an excellent idea that's
[42:10] definitely an excellent idea sorry using
[42:12] something I was gonna say speaking of I
[42:14] saw that you were posting a bit on
[42:15] Twitter today or maybe yesterday or
[42:18] recently about an open source
[42:20] testimonials project that you've been
[42:21] working on I was hoping to hear a little
[42:22] bit more about that from you
[42:24] that's great thank you for giving me
[42:26] opportunity to speak in my own podcast
[42:30] and and add the plug so as I was saying
[42:33] that I I was connected with these people
[42:35] for about a month and two things that I
[42:38] realized that they are missing number
[42:40] one is the schedule
[42:42] um picking one thing and just focusing
[42:44] on that one thing and uh follow through
[42:48] for a month or a quarter and learn that
[42:51] that's missing they're all distracted to
[42:53] go after shiny courses shining YouTube
[42:55] video and not finishing them and
[42:58] switching to the next one so that's
[42:59] problem number one
[43:01] problem number two is working on a
[43:04] project they all can work on a project
[43:07] but I think there is still a resistance
[43:10] around what to make
[43:12] and I hear all these questions is it
[43:17] okay to make an a clone of Netflix is it
[43:20] okay to create a clone of something
[43:24] exist in GitHub and do that project
[43:28] so I realize those are the two things
[43:31] where I can help consistency and a
[43:35] project
[43:36] um so that's how I started thinking
[43:38] about creating five ideas
[43:41] where I will I will give five ideas with
[43:46] requirements with high level flow high
[43:48] level
[43:50] um
[43:51] meaning where somebody can go and see
[43:54] all right this is the idea and it goes
[43:57] to the wbr work breakdown structure it
[43:59] goes to the requirement even the the
[44:01] markup and the design and now uh without
[44:06] looking at the code I can Implement in
[44:08] any technology or any any way I want
[44:12] so that's how I started so I started I
[44:15] created a career
[44:17] um career jump start and under that I
[44:20] will create five projects this is the
[44:21] first one
[44:23] Now
[44:25] by doing this project I am trying to
[44:28] identify what are the minimum thing that
[44:30] I have to do for this group and also uh
[44:33] by then
[44:35] I got resonance from a couple of people
[44:37] who are interested so I said instead of
[44:40] giving just an idea why not a create a
[44:42] team
[44:45] um and so I created a team of 10 people
[44:47] I I post that whoever is interested and
[44:50] it's completely free my service for this
[44:52] project is completely free for these
[44:54] people
[44:55] um so I I got traction some of the
[44:58] people joined and we just had Friday we
[45:02] kick a start and you you see all the
[45:04] timeline right I'm creating the momentum
[45:06] for this my hope is that by the time we
[45:10] finish March 31st we will have the first
[45:13] version up and running
[45:15] as a result I will have all the
[45:17] resources like requirement documents uh
[45:21] wireframe and markup and all plus a high
[45:26] level technical discussion that we are
[45:28] having we had won this early in the
[45:31] morning today the technology that we are
[45:34] selecting so I'm hoping all that will
[45:36] become the content
[45:39] for the people who want to build it
[45:41] independently and then
[45:44] um
[45:46] I lost the start
[45:49] um by March 31st we will launch it and
[45:52] then we then I will decide what's the
[45:54] next quarter looked like I could convert
[45:57] this entire thing into a course into a
[46:00] cohort where where instead of 10 50
[46:03] people are joining and then um it's it
[46:06] could be a paid program where people are
[46:07] paying
[46:08] oh yeah I remember what
[46:10] um so from idea to building this team
[46:14] my goal is to give a working environment
[46:17] the way we work in the office where we
[46:19] have a business analyst we have the ux
[46:22] person and then the team of people and
[46:24] then
[46:25] um you have
[46:27] idea to bounce around and also idea to
[46:30] defend
[46:31] um that if you're really passionate
[46:32] about python in the back end
[46:34] you can you have to convince the other
[46:38] person
[46:39] and in a polite way right you it's not
[46:42] you you know how to Market your idea and
[46:46] then also understanding other person
[46:49] view that for example in this project
[46:52] we're trying to keep things simple and
[46:54] maybe it makes sense to just do next
[46:56] years and not uh the python so all that
[46:59] and and some of those elements came so
[47:02] I'm hoping that I will give that
[47:03] experience as well to
[47:06] um working in a professional team
[47:08] environment
[47:09] um so yeah that that's how I started
[47:12] that's that's the that's the whole
[47:15] idea behind this project and I'm trying
[47:17] to do two things one is to provide the
[47:19] consistency of for them to work and then
[47:23] second an idea that they can work
[47:26] um because I remember 20 years ago when
[47:29] I had my first interview or second I did
[47:33] not know that they will give me a job
[47:35] out of 300 people but when I started
[47:37] talking passionately about the project
[47:39] that I've done I not only got that job
[47:42] but two more jobs so I know that how a
[47:47] project can help so that's kind of the
[47:49] story behind Nick that's how I started
[47:52] um I'm just going all Direction but
[47:54] wherever like the water uh wherever this
[47:57] thing is taking me
[47:59] with an end goal is to help this two set
[48:03] of people and find what is that one
[48:07] problem that they are that is holding
[48:09] them back and what is one thing that I
[48:11] can do
[48:13] um that has the tremendous benefit
[48:15] absolutely yeah definitely awesome
[48:18] project and awesome idea definitely
[48:20] looking forward to following and keeping
[48:22] track of how it goes
[48:23] I'm hoping that I will create so much
[48:25] momentum that before we finish some uh
[48:28] some companies some recruiter will
[48:30] identify these guys and pick them for
[48:33] their company so I'm I'm completely okay
[48:35] to to have that challenge that by March
[48:38] and somebody admire she made somebody
[48:41] will say that oh I got a job it's and
[48:44] and it's a full-time job so I cannot
[48:46] help you anymore or cannot work on this
[48:48] project anymore and I have to find
[48:50] someone and have so I'm hoping I'm
[48:53] hoping
[48:55] um this will be a happy ending for some
[48:57] of the people
[48:59] um
[48:59] and
[49:02] my team member like Roberto or
[49:07] Abdul Aziz they're talented I'm I'm just
[49:11] amazed
[49:13] um that how quickly companies will
[49:16] identify that there is a gold mine there
[49:18] and pick them
[49:21] sounds awesome
[49:22] yeah definitely it definitely I think
[49:24] people underestimate how much passion
[49:27] shows through especially in an interview
[49:29] process when you're applying for a job
[49:31] and yeah hiring managers can really tell
[49:33] when
[49:35] a person is a good fit for the company
[49:38] I when applying to the healthcare tech
[49:41] company I had a I I spent a year up at
[49:45] that point studying cancer I didn't
[49:46] learn anything about Healthcare I spent
[49:48] a year studying cancer research and what
[49:50] all these different companies are doing
[49:51] and when I went to go to apply for this
[49:52] job
[49:54] I was the top candidate because no one
[49:57] it was a software development role but
[49:59] it was in the healthcare tech company
[50:00] everyone else was you know even they
[50:02] worked at Healthcare but they weren't
[50:04] super passionate about it anymore
[50:05] they're just looking for another job or
[50:07] they they don't know anything about
[50:09] health care and they're just a software
[50:10] developer
[50:11] because I had both those pieces I was
[50:13] really passionate about it it really
[50:15] helps you stand out and that's one of
[50:17] the things I like to to convey to sort
[50:20] of my audience and my my students as
[50:22] well as you know you really need to find
[50:24] something that you're really interested
[50:25] in and build on that
[50:27] and so yeah I just wanted to touch on
[50:29] that a little bit I just noticed five
[50:31] foot two
[50:32] um are you still okay for a few minutes
[50:35] um I do need to run in a few minutes
[50:37] okay so let's jump into the final
[50:41] section
[50:43] um as a freelancer especially as a
[50:45] course creator I'm sure so many things
[50:48] are going on in your life so I want to
[50:50] ask how a typical week look like for you
[50:53] how a typical day look like for you
[50:55] right I was dreading this question so my
[50:59] routine and my my daily and weekly
[51:02] routine is not recommended
[51:06] I I consider myself a bit of a sprinter
[51:09] so whenever I catch on to something that
[51:13] needs to get done like a big project or
[51:15] I need to write up some content or I
[51:17] need to build a curriculum and I need to
[51:19] prepare for meetings with students
[51:22] I am laser focused and I'll sit through
[51:25] and you know I'll come become conscious
[51:28] and it'll be 4 a.m
[51:31] and the entire night just just straight
[51:34] through the night wow yeah
[51:37] um that happens that happens probably
[51:39] once a week uh just straight
[51:41] all-nighters
[51:43] um crash for the day you know
[51:46] not great habits for me personally but
[51:49] that's kind of how that's kind of how I
[51:50] work so if I were to do the same amount
[51:53] of work and break it up over the week
[51:56] I I don't think my quality would be as
[51:58] good and maybe this is just something
[51:59] that I need to work on personally but
[52:02] I definitely am
[52:05] uh there's a quote from the the the
[52:08] Batman movie where the Joker is like I'm
[52:11] just like a dog who's chasing the
[52:13] mailman I don't know what to do when I
[52:14] when I get a hold of the mailman I I
[52:16] think of myself oh my God yes like I
[52:19] I've caught wind of something that I
[52:21] want to grab and I'm just gonna sit here
[52:23] at my desk or wherever I need to be and
[52:25] just get that thing until I get it and
[52:27] then that's when I can sleep
[52:29] so I I would say I am tenacious and uh
[52:33] and very focused
[52:36] sometimes that leads me to pulling
[52:38] all-nighters and sometimes I can get it
[52:39] done quicker than that
[52:41] but that's effective that's effectively
[52:43] my routine and you know I I work on lots
[52:45] of different projects lots of different
[52:48] um in the freelance context like
[52:49] companies can sometimes suddenly need
[52:51] something and I sort I I have a good
[52:54] sense of you know what's urgent and
[52:56] what's not and so I can say well I'll
[52:58] deal with that tomorrow I'll deal with
[52:59] that in a few days sometimes a problem
[53:02] will be particularly interesting and
[53:03] I'll be like oh I need to start on that
[53:04] now and once I get started on it I get
[53:06] hooked I get very addicted and I get
[53:08] through as much of it as I can
[53:10] for that reason I avoid alcohol and and
[53:14] all these different things too these
[53:15] devices that can be dangerous just
[53:18] because I I know I have a a pattern of
[53:21] really getting addicted to what I'm
[53:24] working on what I'm doing and I I don't
[53:26] I want to avoid getting addicted to
[53:27] anything too too uh too bad for you in
[53:30] your mind yeah
[53:33] yeah so that's that's a bit of my daily
[53:35] routine not one I recommend for almost
[53:37] anyone but it's working for me for now
[53:41] and then how do you identify your goals
[53:45] um I go by quarterly goal I was saying
[53:47] so I try to identify quarterly but in
[53:50] your case how do you identify your goals
[53:52] big goals
[53:54] my big goals are are pretty simple
[53:58] um I would probably say I think about
[54:00] them in terms of of years I probably do
[54:02] annual planning
[54:04] okay
[54:06] um obviously I have a lot of short-term
[54:08] planning that goes on in between that
[54:09] but I like to have ideas of where I want
[54:11] to be within a year okay
[54:15] um
[54:17] yeah I don't know if you had any more
[54:19] specific questions about that
[54:22] well I would just ask if you willing to
[54:24] share where you want to be in in a year
[54:26] where do you see yourself on December
[54:28] 2023
[54:30] so right now I'm heavily exploring
[54:34] Tech education helping people become
[54:36] software developers I'd really like to
[54:39] find a way to make this my full-time
[54:41] work
[54:42] to sort of let go of some of the
[54:44] freelance projects and so forth
[54:46] I'm looking for ways to make that happen
[54:48] this year I have a lot of different
[54:50] avenues that I'm exploring
[54:54] to do that there's the mentorship
[54:56] program is obviously doing fairly well
[54:59] not quite enough for me to to let go of
[55:02] some of my freelance contracts
[55:04] I'm looking for other ways to augment
[55:06] sort of that that program or to make it
[55:08] more popular to get more people
[55:09] interested who are capable of affording
[55:11] the program
[55:12] some of that's going to be involved
[55:14] building courses building training
[55:17] programs for people who are looking for
[55:18] specific types of problems
[55:21] um I'm also looking at building
[55:22] corporate sponsorships who can fund
[55:25] training for people who can't afford the
[55:27] programs
[55:30] um to sort of find find new ways to take
[55:33] advantage of my skill set of
[55:36] helping people build skills and become
[55:39] job ready for a role in software
[55:41] development
[55:44] nice so there's a lot going on right
[55:47] there are a lot of different areas that
[55:49] you're working how are you tracking them
[55:51] what's your uh are you listing them on a
[55:54] page or a notion or some kind of system
[55:57] that and how do you review that you're
[56:00] making progress about those
[56:03] um because because I feel like my goals
[56:05] are
[56:06] simple enough for the most part I have a
[56:09] good idea in my book and my mind whether
[56:12] or not I'm moving in the right direction
[56:13] or not and I can get a sense of
[56:16] is this the right direction is this the
[56:18] right project that I should be working
[56:19] on as far as tracking my work I do use
[56:22] Trello for for big project things and
[56:25] more like a backlog to-do list of
[56:27] projects that need to come up eventually
[56:29] but my primary to-do list is actually a
[56:33] sticky note that I keep on my monitor
[56:36] right here and I just I have a sticking
[56:39] pad right there and I update this
[56:40] probably every day or every other day
[56:43] just what did I get done what I need to
[56:44] do and I just keep that updated and
[56:46] that's just staring at me all day so
[56:49] that's kind of how I do my my daily
[56:51] to-do's
[56:53] but I've seen if you can do it
[56:56] um a night out or until 4 AM that
[56:59] indicate how much Focus you have so
[57:01] that's tremendous
[57:03] ly I have to use Trello or even this
[57:07] fizzy El Trello
[57:09] this is my physical Trello oh sorry
[57:12] Trello uh pomodoro yes yes I have to to
[57:15] keep it and then I have to discipline
[57:18] myself that until this is done I'm not
[57:21] checking Twitter I'm not checking uh
[57:24] YouTube I'm not doing anything else than
[57:26] just this and one hour is harder
[57:29] absolutely I actually have there are
[57:31] some cases where I find myself
[57:34] struggling to get started on a specific
[57:36] task it's something I'm dreading doing
[57:37] even though I need to do it I actually
[57:39] have this this little clock here that's
[57:43] got the shape here and it's got timers
[57:46] on the sides okay if I set it down like
[57:49] this on the table it starts a five
[57:51] minute timer and you can see it starting
[57:53] to count down there oh my God and then
[57:56] and then it beeps off whenever you got
[57:58] through five minutes so if I need to get
[57:59] started in something it's like you know
[58:00] what I'll just I'll start and I'll spend
[58:02] five minutes on this thing and I'll flip
[58:04] the timer and I'll let it go and I for
[58:06] five minutes I just do that task and
[58:07] usually that's enough for me to catch
[58:09] and get get that addiction of that
[58:11] whatever I was trying to avoid going so
[58:13] I do have that sort of Pomodoro
[58:16] Technique that's awesome I love it that
[58:18] is all yeah send me send me the link to
[58:23] that yeah I will add it to the show note
[58:25] this is fantastic absolutely
[58:29] all right I know you need to go
[58:31] um this is one of those interviews that
[58:33] way you you have uh been speaking for an
[58:37] hour and you didn't really realize that
[58:40] it's already an hour yeah fantastic
[58:44] [Music]
[58:44] um
[58:46] I want to ask you for your message to
[58:50] audience who are in my case is the web
[58:52] developer but you you welcome to Target
[58:55] anyone what's your message for them and
[58:59] then I will ask the follow two follow-up
[59:01] questions
[59:02] um one is uh
[59:05] um what your suggestion for them again
[59:08] those two people
[59:10] to start like how how to focus on
[59:14] learning and how to get their first job
[59:17] and once they are in job how to go to
[59:20] the next level how to how to position
[59:23] themselves and make progress and go to
[59:27] the next level like become a senior
[59:29] absolutely so my my general message for
[59:33] the audience is you know whatever you
[59:36] want to do
[59:37] you you can do it you've just got to
[59:40] learn to cut out the things that are
[59:42] distracting you from that thing that you
[59:45] want to do it's focus is the number one
[59:47] answer to getting what you want out of
[59:51] your career out of your life you've got
[59:52] to focus on the specific thing that you
[59:54] want you have to go after it
[59:56] that would be my general message to the
[59:58] audience
[59:59] um the
[1:00:02] you mentioned sort of what my
[1:00:04] recommendations are for people who are
[1:00:05] starting to learn to code who want to
[1:00:07] become software developers who want to
[1:00:09] become web developers and want to grow
[1:00:10] their careers as as web developers and
[1:00:12] programmers
[1:00:14] if you want to learn to code the first
[1:00:18] thing you've got to do is
[1:00:20] understand why you want to learn to code
[1:00:22] why do you want to become a software
[1:00:23] developer you have to deeply understand
[1:00:25] why that is like you want to take
[1:00:28] advantage of the tech industry you want
[1:00:29] to build a a nice life for yourself for
[1:00:32] your family you want to build stability
[1:00:35] in your life the tech industry offers
[1:00:37] that
[1:00:38] once you've learned to code
[1:00:40] yeah you've got access to so many
[1:00:43] different opportunities and so many
[1:00:45] different Industries and so many
[1:00:46] different
[1:00:47] uh there's just the options blow wide
[1:00:50] open you don't always have to be a
[1:00:52] software developer you can go from
[1:00:53] software developer into product managers
[1:00:55] the tech industry as a whole is just
[1:00:57] waiting for people yeah people to help
[1:01:01] make software great and a reality
[1:01:06] um
[1:01:08] so my recommendation would be go go
[1:01:11] learn Focus get the skills that you need
[1:01:14] and then
[1:01:16] apply like you've just got to apply and
[1:01:19] get the feedback and figure out where
[1:01:20] where people are saying no well you're
[1:01:22] not quite a good fit and figure out what
[1:01:24] the what are the reasons for you
[1:01:26] that companies are considering you to
[1:01:28] not be a good fit
[1:01:30] figure out what those gaps are learn
[1:01:33] some more skills fill those gaps and
[1:01:35] then go back at it again and I I truly
[1:01:38] think that anybody who wants it badly
[1:01:40] enough can become a software developer
[1:01:42] can become it can join the tech industry
[1:01:44] and fill whatever role that they find
[1:01:46] interesting
[1:01:49] and then the people who are already
[1:01:51] working in the industry for three years
[1:01:52] five years now they're feeling stuck
[1:01:54] what's your message to them
[1:01:57] I would say that
[1:02:00] I can only speak from my own experience
[1:02:01] I felt stuck in three to five years and
[1:02:04] I didn't know where to go I reached out
[1:02:06] to a coach this was a very controversial
[1:02:09] thing to do at the time that I was doing
[1:02:11] it I I didn't know anybody who used a
[1:02:13] coach I didn't know anybody who was a
[1:02:15] coach I just knew I had a really serious
[1:02:18] problem it was keeping me up at 2 A.M
[1:02:20] like I was sitting at my desk I could be
[1:02:23] working on on work
[1:02:26] but I can't I just can't find the
[1:02:28] motivation to to do it there's just
[1:02:30] there's just no reason to do it I would
[1:02:33] get the same amount of work done the
[1:02:34] next day and I'll have the same reward
[1:02:36] for it like there's just I was very
[1:02:38] stuck in that position I didn't know who
[1:02:40] to reach out to I ended up reaching out
[1:02:42] to a coach
[1:02:43] and found a project I was really
[1:02:46] passionate about in finding uh helping
[1:02:49] with cancer research and that just set
[1:02:51] me off on a whole different path and
[1:02:53] opened up all kinds of doors for me and
[1:02:56] that's that I would recommend just
[1:02:57] finding finding someone who can help you
[1:02:59] doesn't necessarily have to be a coach
[1:03:00] maybe a maybe a counselor maybe a mental
[1:03:03] health professional figure out what's
[1:03:05] eating at you so that you can go to
[1:03:07] sleep before 2am
[1:03:10] and this uh Cancer Institute I I I
[1:03:13] didn't ask you
[1:03:15] um that cancer research was a software
[1:03:17] type engagement or you was in a clinical
[1:03:19] setting
[1:03:20] I was a software engagement okay yeah it
[1:03:23] was a the work that I did was helping
[1:03:28] the the company was working on
[1:03:30] technology to help identify potential
[1:03:33] candidates for clinical trial drugs and
[1:03:36] so one of the one of the major problems
[1:03:38] in this area is there's not a lot of
[1:03:41] communication between sort of the
[1:03:43] outskirts of different hospitals and
[1:03:46] doctors offices
[1:03:47] and so the
[1:03:51] um
[1:03:53] the work that I was doing was sort of
[1:03:56] Building Systems to allow these
[1:03:58] different
[1:03:59] doctors offices and hospitals to
[1:04:01] communicate patient information into
[1:04:03] sort of a major hub for insurance
[1:04:04] companies and major hospitals and major
[1:04:08] health networks so that all this data
[1:04:10] could come together and that we could
[1:04:11] sort of start to identify candidates who
[1:04:13] were ideal patients for a clinical trial
[1:04:16] drug awesome Nick do you have a question
[1:04:19] for me I do not at the moment I am
[1:04:21] looking forward to learning and seeing
[1:04:23] more about the uh the portfolio the open
[1:04:26] source testimonials project and seeing
[1:04:28] how that goes and and
[1:04:30] watching how the people grow in that
[1:04:32] program awesome thank you so much Nick
[1:04:35] for your time today I enjoyed each and
[1:04:37] every moment from this conversation and
[1:04:40] I hope whoever will watch will have the
[1:04:42] same experience and they would learn a
[1:04:44] lot from this
[1:04:46] absolutely it was really great talking
[1:04:47] to you as well
[1:04:48] [Music]
[1:04:49] all right sir bye for now
[1:04:52] have a good one
[1:04:58] [Music]
[1:05:09] [Music]
[1:05:20] [Music]