Nandan's Journey from Development to Online Writing

[0:00] hello welcome and Namaste to Career
[0:03] Journey podcast welcome Nandan and thank
[0:06] you so much for accepting my request to
[0:09] be a guest on this podcast Nandan and I
[0:12] know each other for probably year almost
[0:16] Nandan Works in Bangalore he's been
[0:19] working for a company called o9 for
[0:23] about 5 years and on the side he shares
[0:27] all the learning his own Lear learning
[0:30] on top mid as well as through blog post
[0:34] and I attended his session on GitHub it
[0:37] was an amazing session so with
[0:40] that again thank you so much Nandan and
[0:43] I wanted to hand over Mike to you to ask
[0:47] you what you do and what is your typical
[0:50] day and a week look like first of all
[0:52] thank you very much for having me it's a
[0:54] privilege to speak to you and I think we
[0:57] are speaking one to one for the first
[0:59] time so I I always wanted to speak to
[1:01] you one to one and finally we are having
[1:04] it so that's great and speaking about my
[1:07] day-to-day life right so usually I'm a
[1:10] person who wakes up early not too early
[1:12] but let's say 7 8 a.m. and once I'm up
[1:16] it's mostly I try to do some sort of
[1:19] workout either gym or maybe work I try
[1:23] to run but not so successful at that but
[1:26] yeah I'm trying and once I'm done with
[1:28] that like it's a 9 9:30 or something and
[1:32] that's when I that's when I started my
[1:34] work for office basically uh and mostly
[1:38] on day to-day Vis I have few calls I
[1:41] have some tasks related to my
[1:43] development work which I have to finish
[1:46] and with you grow it gets tough to get
[1:49] that time for the the actual development
[1:52] work more meetings but yeah I try to
[1:55] spend three to four hours on that and if
[1:58] I'm successful in spending that much
[2:00] time uh I call it a very productive day
[2:03] and I try to end my day around 5 to 6
[2:07] with everything all the meetings and
[2:08] everything and I try to put a break
[2:11] there uh because otherwise in the
[2:14] current work from home setup it it can
[2:16] just keep on going you you don't know so
[2:18] you have to put a sort of a pause on
[2:21] that and then once I done with that I
[2:25] try to spend some time with my family my
[2:27] wife and I
[2:30] usually like you my friends don't live
[2:32] with me but I try to speak with them
[2:34] over call or something and then once
[2:36] that is done I take out sometime later
[2:39] in the evening around 8 to 10: if I have
[2:42] to do some personal project I have to
[2:44] write something or even just interact
[2:47] just speak to the community and that's
[2:49] when I think me and you met on one of
[2:51] the Twitter Twitter spaces right so I
[2:53] try to go to Twitter connect with fellow
[2:57] developers and yeah that's like my whole
[3:00] day looks like so more or less nice very
[3:03] structured very and you find time to
[3:07] write during either evening time or I'm
[3:10] guessing some weekends yes so evening
[3:13] time that's when the motivation comes
[3:15] and then I put a structure I just put
[3:17] the like title okay this I may pick this
[3:20] topic to write down and and then the
[3:22] actual work is usually not around that
[3:25] time it's late night so it's around like
[3:28] 11 and very much be and at that time I
[3:31] try to spend couple of hours and usually
[3:34] I what I do finish my work I get reviews
[3:37] my wife and my wife's brother actually
[3:41] these guys they don't like my personal
[3:42] grammarly I just get get check from them
[3:44] okay okay I have grammarly but then I
[3:47] just geted with them as well because Ai
[3:51] and real person reviewing your work and
[3:54] then good part they non Tech background
[3:56] so I always try to review from them
[3:59] because I want to understand how a
[4:01] non-technical person perceives my
[4:03] writing what I write am I able to convey
[4:05] to even a non-technical person if I able
[4:08] to do that I think I'm doing doing a
[4:09] good job and once I do that I think
[4:13] that's when I either make it uh live
[4:17] right there or I just put it for
[4:19] schedule for for morning or something
[4:22] and yeah one thing I would Li to tell
[4:25] because why iting what happened is I
[4:29] think I started writing couple of years
[4:30] back and why because I saw people
[4:34] creating content and the content
[4:37] creation is now like a big thing right
[4:39] it was I think it was good big big even
[4:42] couple of years back but now it's like
[4:44] you know everyone wants to create
[4:45] content I choose my medium to be written
[4:49] because what happens is when a fellow
[4:53] Dev even for me if I want to find
[4:56] something to let's say something that
[4:59] helps me get my work done I find it
[5:02] better to go through a document or a
[5:04] written document I just search and see
[5:08] okay I think this part helps me I read
[5:10] through it and I implement it if there's
[5:13] very less time I have to I go to a
[5:15] YouTube video or something if I even if
[5:17] I have to go to YouTube video it has to
[5:19] be very know space fix but most of the
[5:22] YouTube videos you you know like they
[5:24] did series and everything so it's a good
[5:27] thing to start in learning something but
[5:30] then if you just want something quick
[5:32] nning the medium to go in my
[5:34] understanding everyone can have their
[5:36] own approach their own thinking but
[5:38] that's what I think so that's why and
[5:40] again one more thing that was that
[5:42] played in whole story was like I was
[5:45] camera side I still am but okay it's
[5:47] going up a little bit Yeah I think most
[5:50] of us are going through this some very
[5:52] well handled it and they like doing
[5:55] absolutely good at it but yeah I think a
[5:57] lot of us are still learning and it's a
[6:00] journey most of us will keep on learning
[6:03] I will say one one thing about this
[6:05] camera and YouTube yeah feel I I don't
[6:08] know if I should start Hindi because I'm
[6:12] very comfortable in Hindi and I don't
[6:14] know if this will completely change how
[6:16] I present and do everything but again
[6:19] I'm living in Florida and most of the
[6:21] audience is all around the play but I
[6:25] don't know if that's a good decision or
[6:27] not but I keep thinking about it and I
[6:29] cannot get over it yeah you know what I
[6:32] think language is one thing but for
[6:35] starters like us I consider you someone
[6:38] who just started all we doing it for
[6:41] some but if you look at this structure
[6:44] what we are doing right now podcast
[6:45] you're interacting with someone so a lot
[6:47] of it comes out naturally so we are
[6:50] speaking we discuss it's fluid it's
[6:52] fluid it it happen but when you
[6:54] recording a YouTube video even bir
[6:57] directional conversation then it
[6:59] slightly tricky yeah even webinars are
[7:02] tricky because you most of the time you
[7:04] are the person speaking and that's of
[7:06] that other people are just listening so
[7:08] you really don't know what's happening
[7:11] okay whether other people are getting it
[7:14] whether they are not getting
[7:16] it very less way to get a feedback we
[7:18] always checking okay am I able to
[7:21] deliver what I'm supposed to or not so I
[7:24] think that's a issue there I think maybe
[7:28] not the language but I think if you do
[7:31] what you're doing if you maybe you
[7:33] change the format to something like
[7:35] informative you you pick a topic discuss
[7:38] it with one of the fellow developers and
[7:40] see it can work out yeah I will try that
[7:44] yeah but this these podcasts have been
[7:46] working out really good and in fact they
[7:48] have given me a lot of confidence in
[7:50] terms of presentation I I presented to a
[7:55] group of about 200 people last week and
[7:59] I got feedback that about the
[8:01] presentation was amazing the content was
[8:04] amazing and my delivery was great and
[8:07] people was actually appreciative the
[8:09] information that I have shared and I
[8:11] would not have done this every time I go
[8:14] for
[8:15] presentation
[8:16] before I get nervousness and it's like
[8:20] my blood pressure is rising there are so
[8:23] many thing was happening inside but I
[8:25] get to practice in these videos and then
[8:28] I got to practice in these spaces just
[8:31] in discussion with everyone so slowly it
[8:34] has actually helped yes YouTube is
[8:37] actually was able to help me yes I think
[8:41] it definitely helps and I think one more
[8:43] thing what believe like it's like the
[8:47] anxiety is before you get in once you
[8:50] are there you are in the space you just
[8:53] start doing better just it just fluid
[8:56] then you you're like okay now I'm in the
[8:58] space I'm supposed to do it I'm supposed
[9:01] to do deliver this message to the
[9:03] audience and you are into it but I think
[9:06] yeah it's it's the process I think it's
[9:08] you get all these chills and everything
[9:10] but then once you're in the space you
[9:12] just want to you're just ready to rock
[9:14] so I think a good thing so you shared
[9:17] why you write and where the drive is
[9:20] coming from and I wanted to ask you
[9:22] actually so thank you for answering that
[9:25] anything else that you want to add to
[9:27] that yeah I do plan to move from move
[9:31] away from the writing I'm not away as in
[9:33] move forward from the from writing I
[9:35] want to add that's why I try to do one
[9:38] webinar and I I plan to do more of it
[9:41] because I I want to try different
[9:43] mediums because that was starting of my
[9:45] content creation Journey now I want to
[9:47] go next I want to do some webinars some
[9:51] one toone instuction if I have okay now
[9:55] in terms of your writing I saw your blog
[9:58] before the podcast and you have many
[10:01] article and some of them are really
[10:03] detailed it's well structured
[10:07] so how do you come up with the the topic
[10:11] ideas and how do you outline or go from
[10:15] start to finish the way I do it is first
[10:19] of the way I write is I start learning
[10:22] something and I try to put my learning
[10:25] into writing some of the things like
[10:27] when I started writing about guil
[10:29] because constantly I got this feedback
[10:31] from my you know friends fellow
[10:33] developers colleagues that you have a
[10:35] very good knowledge of G why don't you
[10:38] write about it and when I started okay
[10:40] let me give it a try and I wrote around
[10:43] a series of blogs like around five six
[10:45] blogs around it and that gave me the
[10:47] initial confidence and then everything I
[10:50] started to learn around like something
[10:51] system design a little bit just and I
[10:54] started writing about that so that's
[10:56] where the idea comes from the topics
[10:58] come comes from there
[10:59] and that's why it's so structured
[11:01] because I know okay I'll start from here
[11:03] I'll go till this point right so you
[11:06] have a journey you have a story to tell
[11:08] okay this is the first topic and this is
[11:10] the next topic and so on and it can go
[11:12] on till I until I've covered everything
[11:14] around that topic so that's where the
[11:17] structure comes from and yeah research
[11:20] is something that I have to do and I
[11:22] think it's at part of learning you have
[11:23] to do your research right first the way
[11:26] I do I try to create a framework of how
[11:29] how I pick a Blog on system design right
[11:33] now I start from the basics of system
[11:36] and then I tried put what are the basics
[11:38] what what knowledge there right so I try
[11:40] to put the initial subtopics and then I
[11:45] write the whole story around it I I pick
[11:48] one topic I research about it I and then
[11:51] I put them in raw words and then try to
[11:53] make it make it sound very intuitive and
[11:56] very deceptive to other people so
[11:59] everyone can understand so that's my
[12:01] process of writing and how long it take
[12:05] you to write one
[12:07] post it can take yeah if I shft it
[12:12] through a Blog of let's say 500 600 word
[12:16] takes around one hour or something okay
[12:20] and are you using chat GPT in some
[12:23] way yes yes definitely I use Char
[12:26] sometime when I want to set the tone
[12:28] wrot something but could be very crude
[12:30] right and I want to set the tone of that
[12:32] particular paragraph and so that's when
[12:34] I try give it to please set the tone for
[12:36] me so yeah I I do that because you have
[12:40] to understand kind of audience you are
[12:42] trying to Target right and then I read
[12:44] it I I read it and then I think okay
[12:46] whether I'm am I like whatever chat G
[12:49] has written for me whether I able to
[12:51] understand it if I able to understand it
[12:53] and okay it makes sense to me it will
[12:55] probably make sense to other people as
[12:57] well and then
[13:00] I have a couple of prompts and also
[13:03] couple of plugins that I use but my
[13:06] process is like this I would write
[13:09] something Ocean or wherever I just I'm
[13:13] thinking yes yes then I copy that into
[13:16] uh one of those prompt and I as them to
[13:20] match to my voice and everything
[13:22] sometime the first response is so
[13:24] polished and I said no this is not me
[13:28] talking so I would have have to to have
[13:31] another conversation now simplify the
[13:34] language do not use this glorified word
[13:37] and use the word that I use because
[13:39] we've been talking for last 50 days and
[13:42] I would just have that kind of
[13:43] conversation and it would bring it to
[13:46] more my liing so that's one way and then
[13:49] second for 30 I have many template that
[13:51] I use so I would write something and I
[13:54] ask them ask Chad GP to apply one of the
[13:58] template
[13:59] so those are the two different ways that
[14:01] I use my
[14:03] CH no I think you that's nice that's
[14:06] nice I probably use I'll reach out to
[14:10] you for the template how how do it I'll
[14:14] give it a try yeah yeah for sure last
[14:17] question on the writing we've been
[14:19] talking about writing because obviously
[14:21] that's one of my favorite topic when I
[14:24] was writing just like what you said
[14:26] anything that I'm learning I was also
[14:28] writing a lot about the problem that I
[14:32] face so if I'm working on
[14:34] VMware to deploy something and a image
[14:38] it was one of the most popular topic so
[14:40] that's why I use that and yeah I'm
[14:43] building a development environment in
[14:46] VMware and I face the problem that after
[14:50] a month I'm trying to restart that
[14:52] VMware and it image is not working so I
[14:56] would start that error that I got the
[15:00] problem that I had and then when I find
[15:03] a solution I would add the solution that
[15:06] I found and what worked for me and I
[15:09] would just post that as I will make it
[15:12] as a blog post and post it those
[15:14] articles were actually more popular than
[15:17] the teaching article that I had so that
[15:20] was one of my biggest learning to just
[15:22] talk about the problem I faced and how I
[15:26] solved it what definitely I think yeah
[15:28] that's that's actually a good way to do
[15:30] it and with me try to be a little
[15:33] secretive because I would do a lot of
[15:35] things around my work right and now what
[15:40] issues I face at work I would not want
[15:42] to diverge too much information that's
[15:45] why I'm a bit cautious around this thing
[15:49] and I haven't been writing about it but
[15:52] yeah and I am now doing some side
[15:55] projects and even I had a conversation
[15:57] with my manager gently and I told him
[16:00] like okay I write and you have seen my
[16:03] post and everything but I do not write
[16:05] about my work because I'm not supposed
[16:07] to or maybe so I just want to confirm
[16:11] with you whether I can do that or not
[16:13] right he said yeah it's fine you can
[16:15] write about it not directly but you will
[16:17] write about technology and what issue
[16:19] that can you know that you can face
[16:22] around it so even I plan to do that and
[16:24] even this is something that I did this
[16:27] weekend and not it's it was not work
[16:29] regulated I did a p i I actually created
[16:33] a browser extension with
[16:36] angular I people create browsers
[16:38] extensions all the time and then mostly
[16:41] it's like JavaScript typescript and you
[16:43] write your extension around it right so
[16:45] I did I used angle for some for the part
[16:49] of it and then I I I created an ex and I
[16:53] in this journey in P three days four
[16:56] days I learned angular I learned how to
[16:58] build extension and also learned how to
[17:01] build extension with
[17:03] angular
[17:05] now yeah now I plan to write about it
[17:08] and hopefully I'll do it maybe next week
[17:10] or sometime or if I know some time
[17:13] available with me I'll do that yeah so
[17:15] let's bring the topic back to the
[17:18] Development Career we'll start with a
[17:21] very quick sentence about how all the
[17:24] writing has helped you in your primary
[17:26] job
[17:29] okay I think the right how writing help
[17:31] me primary job I would say it help build
[17:35] a Authority when when I like people
[17:38] reach out will reach out to me with more
[17:40] confidence now if they ever face
[17:43] anything related to good okay they like
[17:46] I think is a person I should reach out
[17:48] to because he know what what he'll know
[17:50] what we have to do if they have a merge
[17:52] conflict they have to do some sort of
[17:54] cherry pick and they they'll reach out
[17:56] to me so all this writing has really
[17:59] helped me in building aity in the work
[18:01] workspace and if you
[18:04] get obviously my not just my peers but
[18:08] my seniors they have read my blog and
[18:10] they have been praising me they like my
[18:13] they like it and they they're very open
[18:15] about it they just say it out loud and
[18:17] then I read your content and it was
[18:19] really good and that definitely boosts
[18:21] up my confidence you know I feel more
[18:24] more more confident going going to work
[18:26] I feel more
[18:27] appreciated obviously at work from when
[18:29] I work I feel appreciated every every
[18:32] day but these things I'll share you on
[18:35] top of the cake so yeah wow thank you
[18:39] this is good we had an entire
[18:42] session on just
[18:44] writing the thought process behind it
[18:48] yes the execution of writing idea to
[18:52] post and then we had the outcome that
[18:56] you have received so yes yes great this
[19:00] what I will do I will have a separate
[19:02] section and separate video just for this
[19:04] writing session and
[19:07] then that could be useful for anyone but
[19:10] you said one thing which actually
[19:12] highlighted for me or highlight of this
[19:16] discussion that people are reaching out
[19:18] to you for a very specific thing which
[19:21] is get and uh uh merge a conflict or U
[19:26] anything that if they got is stuck in G
[19:30] for whatever reason right so it's
[19:32] amazing what I learned from ship 3430 is
[19:35] you can pick one of the thing that you
[19:38] do good and you can build everything
[19:41] around it and then you can add more but
[19:44] you can start with that one thing and do
[19:47] everything around it so I will give you
[19:49] an idea that you probably have wrote all
[19:52] the technical items but then there is a
[19:55] strategical item such as for which type
[19:58] of
[19:59] project what type of branching strategy
[20:03] we should use and then thinking about
[20:05] what type of folder structure that we
[20:08] should use in GitHub right there are
[20:10] many topic which is not exactly git but
[20:15] it is related and then you're working on
[20:18] the Tactical level which is like all
[20:21] these syntax all these problem and then
[20:24] you start working on the Strategic level
[20:28] is before you do all these activity how
[20:31] do you think about utilizing the gate
[20:35] and many the very first thing that comes
[20:37] to people mind is how what type of
[20:41] account to create what kind of tool to
[20:44] use what kind of branching strategy to
[20:47] use what kind of merge and pull request
[20:50] a PR strategy whether it will be one
[20:53] review or two review you could even
[20:56] create a template for yes use this to
[20:59] build your merge strategy in which you
[21:04] have this some kind of policy template
[21:07] of how how many layers that you have to
[21:10] go through for merging for example for
[21:12] this Dallas software group yeah we
[21:15] discussed that and now we have a
[21:17] strategy that we will have Dev test and
[21:21] Main Branch Ander to merge there will be
[21:24] two approval needed yes we implement did
[21:28] that so I just wanted to provide you
[21:31] that feedback no definitely definitely I
[21:33] think it's very Co it's not like one
[21:35] template fits all right every project
[21:38] has own strategy every organization has
[21:41] their own strategy to do that but all
[21:43] this strategy come from as thought
[21:45] process right where I work we push
[21:48] everything to master and then everything
[21:51] else has a branch everything else is a
[21:53] branch okay that suits us maybe just
[21:57] five templat
[21:59] and then with each template you will
[22:02] Define what are the situation where this
[22:05] template may be a good fit something
[22:07] like that yes def notely yeah makes
[22:09] sense I try that thank you okay all
[22:12] right let's keep going we'll come back
[22:16] to the Development Career you've been
[22:17] working here almost 5 years I want to
[22:21] ask when you started working in this
[22:25] company and 5 year later now now what is
[22:29] the biggest change that you see in
[22:31] yourself I think when I joined here I
[22:34] had 2 and half years of experience them
[22:36] but I was still a junior developer in my
[22:39] mindset my Approach was very Brute Force
[22:42] I just want wanted to get into the
[22:44] development okay I have a task I'll
[22:46] build it everything was so root Force I
[22:48] just want to get in build it and then
[22:50] you don't know what will happen next so
[22:53] I think the biggest change that happened
[22:55] now I that that root Force approach had
[22:58] changed now i s now whenever I get a
[23:00] task I sit back I analyze it I see what
[23:06] if I build I'm going to build this what
[23:09] are the parts of the software they are
[23:11] going to affect what I need to do what
[23:15] what I need to learn to build this and
[23:18] how much time it will take because now
[23:20] because now I like have grown up in my
[23:23] career five years total of seven eight
[23:26] years now and now I have to make sure
[23:29] that I estimate it correctly and tell
[23:31] this up front before I had my architect
[23:35] or someone who would decide okay is a
[23:38] junior developer uh he'll probably take
[23:41] five days to do this part of the task
[23:43] and 30 like one full Sprint to do one
[23:46] this particular task and that also I
[23:48] would maybe sometime spill over you
[23:51] never know right but I had to start
[23:54] being very precise about that timeline
[23:57] and it would be fine if I I will give
[23:59] like one extra day to everything but I
[24:01] would know I say 30 day I deliver it in
[24:04] 30day because and I plan my work
[24:06] according so I give myself some buffer I
[24:09] give the whole process some buffer once
[24:11] I'm done I have enough time to test I
[24:13] have enough time to write test cases I
[24:16] have even the the qway person who is
[24:18] testing it would also have some time for
[24:21] it you know so I have to now I started
[24:23] looking at the bigger picture I have to
[24:26] started things more holistically than I
[24:28] was would I was doing it two and a half
[24:29] years
[24:31] back and obviously I now more I have
[24:35] learned some more technology I was doing
[24:37] front end majorly when I started now I
[24:39] do full stack now I take double the work
[24:42] then I used to do five years back but
[24:45] yeah then it comes with time it comes
[24:47] with experience like you were saying
[24:48] some back like start with one thing and
[24:50] just keep expanding
[24:53] your and you spoke a lot about
[24:55] estimation and thinking end to end end
[24:59] and that's so crucial that's so crucial
[25:02] I have worked with many developer some
[25:05] of them even though they are now senior
[25:08] if I ask them or if we talk about some
[25:11] work their first answer would be 4 hours
[25:15] or two days to finish something and then
[25:18] you have to ask many follow-up questions
[25:21] to get to the actual figure which could
[25:24] be not 4 hours but actually a week
[25:27] because then
[25:29] QA testing in the information that they
[25:34] do not have today to start the coding
[25:37] right you ask them what do you need to
[25:39] to start coding and then there will be
[25:41] two or three different thing so they are
[25:44] not even ready right they're not at
[25:46] where they can start coding it might
[25:48] take two days just to gather that
[25:50] information environment so it's so
[25:53] crucial that you
[25:55] develop that end to end proc you right
[25:59] and I think I used to do okay I'll do
[26:02] it that kind of and then you once you
[26:06] get into it and oh okay I should have
[26:09] asked more time
[26:11] yeah now believe it or not I'm a senior
[26:15] manager now yes and I know what to say
[26:21] to get uh estimation like I can
[26:24] manipulate a developer just by asking
[26:27] two or three different questions so on
[26:31] the other
[26:32] side developers are so eager to deliver
[26:37] right that's the passion most of the
[26:40] developers are like that yes and as a
[26:43] manager we do use that for our benefit
[26:47] depending upon yes definitely I think I
[26:50] would say one thing and it's coming from
[26:52] developers perspective and not a manager
[26:54] perspective a good developer should be
[26:57] able to to manipulate his manager but if
[27:00] not manipulate just put his foot down
[27:02] and say oh okay you may think it takes
[27:04] five days but I'm telling you it will
[27:05] take 10 days I can give you a reason for
[27:09] that the negotiation should happen and
[27:13] negotiation I want to ask you if you
[27:16] have to pick one two or three things
[27:19] that has helped you in growing your
[27:23] career in Last 5 Years what will be yeah
[27:26] I think first of all it's to make a
[27:29] habit that you you should never say no
[27:32] to learning always be ready to learn
[27:35] anything that comes your way okay
[27:38] whether you can do it not do it whether
[27:39] it's part of your job profile that's
[27:42] secondary at a work space if you are
[27:44] getting paid and you are asked to do
[27:46] something first see if you can get some
[27:49] learning out of it go ahead learn and
[27:53] unless start sure don't commit estimate
[27:56] you say okay I need couple days let me
[27:59] do some initial reset this is something
[28:01] that I have not done before but I'm open
[28:03] to exploring it so do that and then take
[28:07] it to couple of days and then even if
[28:09] you feel okay I may not be able to tell
[28:12] the estimate I may be moving away from
[28:14] the topic but I just want to put it as
[28:17] addon so ask someone try to get some
[28:20] sort of estimate and then you can always
[28:22] since you are doing it for the first
[28:23] time you may spill over and that's
[28:25] totally all right people know it uh and
[28:29] when the moment you said okay I don't
[28:30] know I don't know it yet but I'll figure
[28:32] it out they know in their head that okay
[28:35] this guy will do it it may take one week
[28:37] extra or two week extra for that matter
[28:39] and they are totally okay with it I
[28:42] think so that's one thing never stop
[28:44] learning and second is I think you have
[28:48] to ask I think three three things write
[28:51] questions you have to ask for help when
[28:54] required and you have to ask since you
[28:58] have done so much work always ask what
[29:01] what is right for you or what is your
[29:04] worth that's part of part of the whole
[29:06] process all Technical and everything is
[29:08] nice but you have to know when you put
[29:10] your foot down and say okay I think the
[29:13] while work your motivation I have to
[29:16] look at my growth as well I can not keep
[29:18] on working but at the same time I I need
[29:20] to know okay I'm being rewarded for that
[29:23] so if you have to ask for reward always
[29:26] do that I think that's also one of the
[29:27] very crucial things and most of the
[29:29] developer are very s about it they think
[29:31] okay how can I ask the my manager or the
[29:34] C the management should be able to see
[29:36] my work no that's not the that's not the
[29:39] case that that's not always the case it
[29:41] is sometime but sometimes you have to
[29:44] put your you have to Showcase what you
[29:45] have done and at the same time you have
[29:47] to ask okay I think it's been two years
[29:49] I'm probably I'm ready for a
[29:52] promotion what I think I am ready maybe
[29:55] you evaluate me if you have to but I
[29:57] think for put me forward for this if you
[29:59] don't ask you probably not get it 100%
[30:02] And the podcast that I publish this
[30:06] Thursday is s Brett and he said you
[30:10] should have intentional conversation
[30:12] with your manager about your promotion
[30:14] so you go to your manager and say that
[30:17] just like how you said I'm ready or I
[30:19] will be ready and he said you ask them
[30:23] what do I need to do to get them if I'm
[30:27] not there right now what do I need to do
[30:31] and create a plan with them with your
[30:34] managers and then you say so Brett said
[30:40] that's one of the thing that he suggest
[30:42] and then yeah you talk about uh showing
[30:45] off your work right and you should not
[30:49] wait for your annual review to show off
[30:51] your work you should one of one of one
[30:54] is so crucial I don't know yeah how many
[30:57] people
[30:58] not utilize it to its extent and I have
[31:03] also done that I've not used it I don't
[31:05] know what to do in the one-on-one
[31:07] oneon-one is your time where you can
[31:10] have any kind of conversation and you
[31:12] should always encourage your manager and
[31:15] yourself to have those conversation at
[31:17] least by weekly so yes yes def having a
[31:22] screenshot of U anybody who have said
[31:25] something good about you your customer
[31:28] your peers your manager just keep a log
[31:32] and I do that I still do that in my one
[31:35] note if there's anything that is good
[31:39] either for me or my team member I keep a
[31:41] lot and and that's really important
[31:45] activity yeah defly you should always
[31:48] keep track of of the work you have done
[31:50] and now we there sofware if not then you
[31:53] just put it on in a mail someone is
[31:56] giving a good feedback about you may
[31:58] verbally ask them can you put it in
[32:00] email can you put it in on the port
[32:02] portal and I think should be fine and
[32:05] that all that will help you grow
[32:08] basically and yeah what you said was
[32:10] right from like the previous
[32:12] conversation I think it was with yeah I
[32:15] what he said is right because promotion
[32:17] is not always about I ready and I I need
[32:20] a promotion it's also about okay six
[32:22] month down line help me build the skill
[32:26] set so I can get promoted
[32:28] yeah yeah yeah that's a very good
[32:31] approach and I think that's that's
[32:33] proactive approach yes yeah yeah what I
[32:36] said was slightly reactive but more
[32:39] often than not it so goes to the
[32:40] reactive side because we always so s
[32:43] about it but yeah if you are productive
[32:45] I think that's a good thing now one
[32:47] thing that has worked for me and I think
[32:51] you are that kind of person so I'm
[32:53] bringing it here whenever I learn
[32:57] something when whenever I finish a
[32:59] project and play a crucial role or I
[33:02] build something that that was really
[33:05] good I always shared everything that I
[33:08] have done with my peers and whoever want
[33:11] to learn and there's always a small fear
[33:16] that oh if I teach something and I if I
[33:20] let other people do the same thing then
[33:23] there will not be a uniqueness or there
[33:25] will not be a something that I own and I
[33:30] worked with PE people who had that kind
[33:33] of mentality to to keep it to themselves
[33:36] so they are known for that thing and I
[33:39] have not done it I have already shared
[33:41] it so initial there was initial clinch
[33:45] oh what happened there's no safety for
[33:47] me now but what always happened that
[33:50] other people start doing that work and I
[33:53] was given a work step up to that work
[33:58] like I now I'm doing something a new
[34:02] research a new work that a new learning
[34:06] for me and I'm not stuck with what I
[34:08] have already done definitely that has
[34:12] helped me keep moving to the next thing
[34:16] because I shared everything there was no
[34:19] dependency on me because I'm the only
[34:22] person who knows how to do it because
[34:24] other people now can do and that allow
[34:27] me to keep moving to the next step yeah
[34:31] really good definitely
[34:34] yeah that's right even I have met with
[34:36] people who just want to keep all this
[34:38] information to themsel and don't share
[34:40] it but I think that's not a very
[34:43] inclusive approach if I have to put it
[34:45] that way I think the open to telling
[34:48] people teaching people sharing your
[34:50] knowledge and I think that is the best
[34:53] growth strategy otherwi you'll be stuck
[34:56] where you currently are and you will
[34:57] doing probably you'll probably doing the
[35:00] same thing that you have been doing all
[35:01] these years and you will not grow so we
[35:04] talk about your day your week then we
[35:07] talk about your writing then we was
[35:09] talking about in last five year what
[35:11] work for you I want to ask now where
[35:15] Nandan is going a year from now or 3
[35:19] years from now or five years from now
[35:22] how do you maybe we start with where
[35:24] Nandan is going and how do you set these
[35:27] big
[35:28] goals okay so when Nandan is
[35:32] going I think Nandan wants to probably
[35:36] want to be more open source oriented
[35:39] more public I want to be more out there
[35:43] in public build in maybe you can say
[35:45] build in public or build with public
[35:46] more like build with public than build
[35:48] in public because my journey so far has
[35:50] been very close I have a lot of learning
[35:52] but it's all dedicated to one particular
[35:55] organization and a lot around that now
[35:57] maybe I'll move a little further and
[35:59] I'll just I take out some time and try
[36:03] to contribute to all these open source
[36:05] project and everything that's one thing
[36:08] second I think I'm looking forward to
[36:11] more challenging kind of work in the
[36:14] sense I want to start building project
[36:18] from bottom up basically start projects
[36:20] from strats and builds those scalable
[36:24] solutions that you know they go ahead
[36:26] and towards the end or in the future
[36:29] become the mammoth softwares that we see
[36:31] that we use in our day-to-day life and
[36:35] it could be just one software as a whole
[36:38] or it could be a set of small softwares
[36:40] that build a ecosystem that kind of be
[36:43] the next big
[36:44] thing yeah okay I'm still do so you talk
[36:48] about your the type of work that you
[36:51] will do what about the outcome what kind
[36:54] of outcome that you're expecting
[36:58] 5 year from now if you keep doing all
[37:00] everything that you're doing right
[37:02] now where would you go where would you
[37:05] reach I think the where I would reach
[37:09] the answer to that question would be no
[37:12] specific answer to it but yeah I think
[37:15] it would be more around arting thing
[37:18] than just building building something
[37:20] and shipping it and this to be done with
[37:22] it more around my future self would look
[37:26] around okay probably let's less handson
[37:28] coding and more on the architecture side
[37:31] right so that's what I think as of now
[37:34] and go a bit beyond and not just
[37:37] architecture but also creating that one
[37:40] good product right one of those products
[37:42] that actually add some
[37:45] value that kind of thing I think that's
[37:47] probably that's where I'm going forward
[37:50] let's see where it goes I think what I'm
[37:52] hearing is that you want to be involved
[37:56] with a product that you start from
[38:00] scratch in the next five years and you
[38:03] have your name your code associated with
[38:05] it your and definitely definitely that's
[38:09] what I'm hearing yeah yes yes I think
[38:11] that's what I I'm trying to say I think
[38:13] so yeah let's see because the question
[38:17] that you asked there always have very
[38:19] genetic answer to it like I want to be
[38:21] architect I want to be a director I want
[38:23] to be this that you don't know you you
[38:26] you probably will never know what you
[38:28] are going to be in future but when I put
[38:30] it this way I know okay I have be to
[38:33] create something or be a part of
[38:35] something that gets to become so big or
[38:38] at least it has some impact so that is
[38:41] what I have in back of my mind when I
[38:43] say these things let's see where it goes
[38:46] so here I will tell you there are two
[38:48] approach to to Big goals okay yeah this
[38:51] top- down approach and then there's
[38:52] bottom up approach bottom up approach is
[38:55] which is what you're using you drive you
[38:57] start driving from Bangalore toward
[39:01] Mumbai Delhi right yeah
[39:05] now as that every hour or every day you
[39:09] will be driving x amount of time amount
[39:12] of speed and all that right yes yes and
[39:15] then every Milestone whether it's every
[39:19] state every city you will evaluate where
[39:22] the direction you still have the
[39:23] direction right it's north that you're
[39:25] going you're not going south you know
[39:27] that right yes yes and you know that
[39:29] you're going by Road you're not going by
[39:33] uh ship or by flight right so that much
[39:37] Clarity and then every few hours few
[39:41] days few years you will be checking like
[39:44] based on the new information that I have
[39:47] received I actually go to Delhi or
[39:50] Bombay or Pune right and then you keep
[39:52] driving and then you keep pivoting even
[39:54] in the Delhi should I go to gura or
[39:59] Noida or somewhere else right bottom up
[40:03] approach where you have a Direction you
[40:05] don't know exactly where you want to
[40:08] reach you will reach but you have a
[40:11] direction and then that's very agile
[40:14] approach you're resetting your target
[40:17] every
[40:18] few I mean I do that every quarter yes
[40:21] sir but you have a long-term Direction
[40:25] which is what
[40:26] important and and then the second
[40:28] approach there are some people who know
[40:30] exactly where they want to go and reach
[40:34] and that's not bad either right they
[40:36] have
[40:37] theity so for them they know that they
[40:40] want to go to guro this and in gura this
[40:44] particular place and they can do a work
[40:48] breakdown and set their Milestone their
[40:51] speed and their stoppage and everything
[40:55] so that approach is also good but it
[40:58] depend for which item which goal it
[41:03] depends on several factor which approach
[41:06] you want to take and most of the time it
[41:09] depends on the clarity yeah and all the
[41:13] signal that you want to receive before
[41:16] you commit to a exact destination
[41:19] because you may not enjoy it makes a lot
[41:21] of sense I think you have have a better
[41:24] clarity now and thanks for that you most
[41:27] welcome we are to wor about an hour mark
[41:31] there's so much that we can talk about
[41:33] but I wanted to take it to the finish
[41:36] line so I will ask my last three
[41:39] questions one is there any question that
[41:42] I have not asked but you want to answer
[41:44] you have asked the all the right
[41:46] questions yeah but there is something I
[41:48] would like to add is the whole idea
[41:51] about creating content and writing I
[41:54] think from where it started I would like
[41:56] to add that partner to this conversation
[41:59] is I wanted to build my internet pres I
[42:02] think the whole idea about creating
[42:04] content writing was to
[42:07] build my internet
[42:09] presence or you know obviously that
[42:13] would that did eventually give me
[42:15] someity made me more and many people
[42:17] reach out to me as well through that and
[42:20] why because you probably know couple of
[42:22] years back I think around this time
[42:25] there was an incident that happened my
[42:26] bag got exchange from with a co-
[42:29] passenger of mine on a very famous
[42:31] Indian headline and I tweeted about that
[42:34] incident I was able to get my bag back
[42:36] by doing some something I was able to
[42:39] get my co- passengers details and I was
[42:41] able to reach out to him and I was able
[42:43] to get my bag back and I tweeted about
[42:46] the whole story it's out there on the
[42:49] internet and and then and then the Tweet
[42:52] got viral and covered by a lot of
[42:54] newspapers and then in this all this in
[42:57] and people were trying to reach out to
[42:59] me it was slightly you know hard for
[43:01] them to reach out to me
[43:03] General they would try to search me and
[43:06] I had very less internet Visions at that
[43:07] time so I started building that uh so
[43:10] after that incident I I started writing
[43:13] seriously I started I had my website up
[43:17] I had my blog up I created this right
[43:21] now I have my website my my website has
[43:24] a section that I write everything in
[43:26] markdown and then I have a separate blog
[43:29] related and then I have a store it
[43:33] didn't sell anything but it's there it's
[43:35] there so all these things I think that
[43:38] was the you can say the ticking point
[43:40] where I thought okay I think this is the
[43:42] time I should build because I have been
[43:45] procrastinating oring up being a font
[43:48] developer I was procastinating about it
[43:50] like five years then two years back to
[43:53] almost 5 years I've been thinking okay
[43:54] I'll create my portfolio I create my
[43:56] portfolio and like I'll do it on V I'll
[43:58] do it on angler I'll do it on this and
[44:00] that and then I was not able to do it at
[44:02] all and when I did it on Vana Ste I have
[44:05] a static landing page and then I have I
[44:08] have this I think it's K theme I think
[44:11] it's on GitHub Pages I'm forgetting the
[44:15] term basically so I have this whole sub
[44:18] pages buil on it and then blog on has
[44:22] not and everything so I I did that yeah
[44:25] so I that's one thing and I think that's
[44:27] also for my all the fellow developers
[44:30] who are trying to build a career for
[44:32] themselves I think it's about what text
[44:35] stock you're going to use your portfolio
[44:38] website doesn't have to be in a texite
[44:41] that you expertise in yeah it can just
[44:43] be a basic static htl page just write
[44:47] the content and let it be there on the
[44:49] internet just put the right titles let
[44:52] people search you and you should you
[44:53] know when I'm trying to get on top of by
[44:56] Google to
[44:58] yeah use WordPress right use WordPress
[45:03] anything portfolio and then in that
[45:07] portfolio add a solid project you can
[45:10] build the project
[45:12] independently and your portfolio site
[45:14] does not have to be that solid project
[45:16] right that's a
[45:18] justce um a method for demonstrating it
[45:22] you don't build your LinkedIn right you
[45:24] don't build LinkedIn from scratch the
[45:27] system is already there yes you add your
[45:30] information right similarly you can
[45:33] build portfolio side in HTML or
[45:36] WordPress or any tool as long as you're
[45:40] putting the information and you're
[45:42] writing the wording that create interest
[45:45] and impact and then in the project
[45:48] section you emphasize on all the solid
[45:51] project that you have
[45:52] built invest your energy in building a
[45:55] solid portfolio project then building
[45:58] the portfolio website definitely that's
[46:01] the right that's the right approach I
[46:02] think
[46:04] yeah a bag actually helped you realizing
[46:09] what a internet presence can do for you
[46:13] and then you started building one for
[46:15] yourself yes yeah and you were saying
[46:18] something about you write an a markdown
[46:20] and then there's a process that convert
[46:22] that into a Blog what is
[46:25] that I I'll tell you actually because I
[46:28] was forgetting this thing so it's a
[46:31] GitHub J okay yeah I heard about it yes
[46:35] and best thing about it I only pay for
[46:37] my
[46:39] domain okay no hosting nothing I only
[46:42] pay for my domain and then GitHub does
[46:44] everything else I mean for students it's
[46:47] you just have your like sub doain of
[46:49] github.io and then when you sometime in
[46:52] future when you are like you can afford
[46:54] a domain go ahead and buy it and map
[46:57] quick do you use uh something like
[46:59] obsidian to edit these um markdown files
[47:03] no I uh I go to GitHub and then I WR it
[47:07] there nice so yeah whoever is listening
[47:11] the steps are Nan has a folder on his
[47:14] machine where he write markdown file he
[47:16] edit using visual studio I have heard
[47:19] from another friend of mine who use
[47:22] obsidian to edit this this folder and
[47:25] then he used GitHub K that run that
[47:28] process I don't know if it is a batch
[47:30] file or a a manual process but he does
[47:34] that which sync his local file with
[47:37] GitHub IO GitHub pages and then that's
[47:40] where all the pages will go yes slide
[47:44] connection there it's Jill GitHub GitHub
[47:46] has this template already if you I think
[47:49] it's there it's a publicly available and
[47:51] it's easy to set up and you make
[47:54] basically you write a build process and
[47:56] it's a your template is already
[47:57] available you just have to do some basic
[47:59] cre and you you write your markdown with
[48:03] everything all the content you get
[48:06] commit get push build job will done in
[48:08] the background and your website is like
[48:10] like your new page like so yeah it takes
[48:13] care of and everything it's cool and
[48:15] then every other project that you have
[48:17] hosted on GitHub right using GitHub P or
[48:20] something be react beat angular beat
[48:22] anything it specifically for front end
[48:25] developers but maybe you if you want to
[48:28] showcase it or if you have like WR API
[48:32] probably look at using swagger or
[48:34] something and this swager in your in
[48:37] your repository and then you just
[48:39] showcase that so you can probably do
[48:41] that and it like it will be like under
[48:43] your sub domain under your path you can
[48:46] just put everything else it a good
[48:48] ecosystem under your main domain and
[48:50] then everything is under that path so it
[48:53] you doesn't have to go out and you can
[48:55] just build your routing smart to us can
[48:57] come back to your home page and then go
[48:59] back to the next page again so got it so
[49:03] Nan is there any question for me ah yes
[49:06] yes I wanted to just briefly know your
[49:10] journey on how you from India went to us
[49:14] and then we have bu buil a life there
[49:17] and you're doing so much for the
[49:18] community how you were able to do it
[49:21] sure my journey started with a marketing
[49:24] job because I could not get any job
[49:26] after my
[49:27] engineering and in that two year I found
[49:30] that software development is one of the
[49:32] thing where I can get an easy entry so I
[49:34] did a six-month
[49:36] course computer it called
[49:38] cedc okay so I did that in last two
[49:42] month of that course I spent
[49:46] every spare hour that I had and I was in
[49:49] the center for 12 to 16 hours I just go
[49:52] home for sleeping and I would sleep I
[49:57] take bath and come back I will eat do
[50:00] everything else in in this Center and
[50:02] building this project with a group of
[50:05] three people that we were then I got
[50:08] three offer after that I worked for a
[50:11] company for a year I switched it to the
[50:13] second company and then I switched to
[50:15] Putney computer which was the fifth
[50:17] largest company in India at that point
[50:19] yes yes after working for them about one
[50:23] and a half year they brought me to
[50:25] Kentucky
[50:27] okay for a very kind of maintenance job
[50:30] and they let the employer I was Employee
[50:35] of the PNE computer but the Cent was
[50:37] fality and then on you were like like a
[50:40] consultant and then yeah then you moveed
[50:42] fulltime something like that no I I was
[50:46] still part of this Putney computer okay
[50:49] okay and they did not like my work so
[50:51] that let me go and then I moved to
[50:52] Dallas after that okay okay okay it was
[50:54] a maintenance job and before I came us I
[50:57] was leading a entire project so it was a
[51:00] huge difference between what they
[51:02] assigned me definitely then I I work in
[51:06] Dallas for a Microsoft ACS and NEC
[51:09] project then moved to
[51:12] Orlando and it I was here for almost one
[51:15] and a half year and already moved three
[51:17] time so then I decided to switch to a
[51:21] local company and I was on H1 and it's
[51:24] really hard to get a job on H1 one yes
[51:28] but fortunately I found a job with satam
[51:31] in Seattle and Advent Health which is
[51:35] local in Orlando and I decided to stay
[51:38] with the local company which was a good
[51:41] decision because satam went b b after
[51:44] some time yes I've been in this company
[51:47] for for a very long time now and my job
[51:50] continuously changing from a senior
[51:53] developer to team leader then I became a
[51:55] development manager then I became a
[51:57] senior manager and I've been handling
[52:00] the agile transformation overall
[52:02] planning testing releases and
[52:05] communication for last five years W
[52:07] that's nice that's that's my journey
[52:10] yeah it's a very I think it's motivating
[52:14] for everyone else I think your story is
[52:17] like inspiring I think inspiring is the
[52:19] right word thank thanks for saying that
[52:23] you're most welcome yeah so let's go to
[52:27] the last one I want to ask you for what
[52:31] is your message to the audience and my
[52:34] most audience are either people who are
[52:37] trying to get into Tech trying to begin
[52:40] their career or the people who are
[52:42] already there and have two to five year
[52:45] of experience and trying to grow
[52:47] themselves so what would be your message
[52:49] to the them I think my message to
[52:53] everyone out there who is trying to
[52:55] build something for thems I think I
[52:58] would say it's your journey and
[53:01] everyone's journey is different while
[53:03] it's nice and good to take inspiration
[53:07] and you should take inspiration from
[53:08] people who have done in your craft in
[53:11] the same craft or their own craft but
[53:13] don't try to live their life they had a
[53:16] different Journey they they went through
[53:18] different things you probably want to go
[53:20] through the same don't worry about that
[53:23] you set your own goals and you keep
[53:26] working towards them you'll have your
[53:28] challenges don't get bogged down by that
[53:31] keep working keep learning and I think
[53:33] keep growing yeah yeah that's what I
[53:34] want to say to everyone out there that's
[53:38] an amazing message very inspiring thank
[53:41] you so much Nandan for coming to this
[53:43] podcast it was a great discussion as I
[53:46] said before we talk about several areas
[53:50] especially uh we spend a lot of time on
[53:52] writing and your writing journey and the
[53:54] benefit that you get that's topic
[53:57] obviously very close to my heart this
[53:59] could be a master class for anybody who
[54:01] want to start their writing Journey so
[54:04] thank you so much Nan