Future-Proofing Tech Careers: Strategies and Stories with Nate Emerson

[0:00] hello welcome and
[0:01] Namaste welcome Nate to Career Journey
[0:05] podcast thank you so much for accepting
[0:07] the invite I have been doing this for
[0:09] some time and uh bringing your a story
[0:13] would be amazing for all the audience so
[0:16] with that I want to hand over Mike to
[0:19] you to share about what you're doing
[0:22] right now and what's your typical day
[0:25] and week look
[0:27] like sure yeah so right now I'm
[0:31] independent I actually had a full-time
[0:34] position as a lead architect at my last
[0:36] organization and I'll speak a bit to
[0:38] that role as well CU I think that was
[0:39] really interesting and a very Dynamic
[0:41] role and a little more typical than my
[0:43] last six months so the last six months
[0:46] I've been working independently doing
[0:48] some Consulting work doing development
[0:51] working with different companies and
[0:53] leaders and was building a business plan
[0:56] to do really coaching and mentorship was
[0:59] a lot of what I was doing and so
[1:00] coaching working with startup Founders
[1:02] and early stage companies in particular
[1:05] I like working with kind of founding
[1:07] Engineers founding CTO I think it's a
[1:11] really exciting Dynamic part of a
[1:13] journey when you have somebody who's
[1:15] been grinding code and very deep in the
[1:18] technology and then when you're starting
[1:19] a company there's so many other aspects
[1:22] to figure out you got to learn about
[1:24] business how to build a team how to talk
[1:27] to investors and so I've always enjoyed
[1:30] speaking with Founders early in my
[1:32] career I was a founding engineer and so
[1:34] I had a lot of experience there and a
[1:37] lot of my career I've reported to and
[1:39] worked with CEOs and CTO directly and so
[1:43] I've always served in the more Middle
[1:46] Ground role I've always been a bit of a
[1:47] translation layer between Technical and
[1:50] higher level business objectives and
[1:52] really enjoyed that time on the other
[1:54] side I've been doing a lot of mentorship
[1:56] and so this is specifically working with
[1:58] earlier career developers as well as
[2:01] career transitioners it's something my
[2:03] whole career I've been working in Tech
[2:06] and specifically web development for
[2:07] almost 20 years and I've always felt
[2:10] like Tech is a very big space with room
[2:13] for everyone and I love the stories of
[2:16] people who don't necessarily have a
[2:18] computer science degree don't
[2:19] necessarily have a background or a huge
[2:22] story of passion and excitement for
[2:24] programming but they can get into Tech
[2:27] and so I've worked with a lot of
[2:28] individuals who are older who have
[2:31] arguably are in the middle of their
[2:32] careers but they're moving into
[2:34] programming and everybody from people in
[2:37] the defense industry to musicians to
[2:40] people in the film industry it's been
[2:43] really encouraging to see how much
[2:46] people are able to move into Tech to
[2:48] learn new skills and to find a career
[2:51] they're really excited about building
[2:53] stuff I think is something that's so
[2:54] compelling about tech and it's been
[2:57] really cool so the last few months my
[2:59] data today has been widely variable the
[3:03] fun parts are definitely having a lot of
[3:06] calls and having a lot of meetings with
[3:08] individuals I have mentees where we have
[3:11] consistent cadences so we usually do
[3:13] one-on ones every other week or at least
[3:15] once a month and get to join in a part
[3:19] of their Journey help be just a small
[3:21] portion of that and give some advice on
[3:25] the experiences that I've had as well so
[3:28] the last six months have been that
[3:30] and the side thing that I've been
[3:31] building up is doing more content
[3:33] creation and so I've always liked the
[3:36] educational side of things most of my
[3:38] jobs I've presented whether it's
[3:41] training seminars or deep Dives on
[3:43] specific technology I've always really
[3:46] enjoyed teaching others difficult
[3:48] Concepts and technology and so I've got
[3:51] a very fledgling YouTube channel where I
[3:53] started documenting a little bit of the
[3:55] journey and I've been live streaming on
[3:56] Twitch a lot and I think twitch and live
[3:59] streaming has been one of the coolest
[4:01] things in the past 6 months it's been
[4:02] really awesome to see it's challenging
[4:05] it's difficult to code live and to go
[4:08] live and feel very vulnerable but the
[4:10] community has been so awesome and it's
[4:12] cool to have people who show up stream
[4:16] after stream and keep coming back and
[4:18] I've also had a lot of success just
[4:20] using that as a way to focus on certain
[4:23] side projects as well I'll chunk out a
[4:25] certain amount of time to do a stream
[4:27] and I have an objective for I'm going to
[4:28] work on this side project during that
[4:30] and I've been learning a lot of new tech
[4:32] I've been digging in with things like
[4:34] bun new JavaScript package manager and
[4:37] runtime and playing with new Frameworks
[4:40] and experimental technology so that's
[4:42] been really fun and that is now I'm
[4:45] coming to a season where I'm actually
[4:46] looking for my next full-time role so
[4:48] I've gone back into sort of the
[4:50] interview Pipeline and process and
[4:52] that's been challenging in its own way
[4:54] but also really exciting I think there's
[4:56] a lot of cool companies out there and
[4:58] it's been really fun
[5:00] getting back into that pipeline while
[5:03] also very challenging with the
[5:04] technicals interview skills is something
[5:06] that you always need to hone you always
[5:08] need to sharpen and be prepared and so
[5:10] I've been doing a lot of reading
[5:12] research and just practicing coding
[5:15] which has been really cool at my last
[5:17] role so I served as the lead architect
[5:19] at a company called lightbox and that
[5:22] was a fascinating Journey it was such a
[5:24] cool company because it was about four
[5:27] or 5 years old when I joined this was a
[5:30] company that was build by acquisition so
[5:32] they were backed by private Equity
[5:34] Silver Lake and Battery Ventures the
[5:35] main funders there and they build they
[5:40] sell commercial real estate and location
[5:43] data and services and so if you've used
[5:46] Uber Apple Maps Google Maps any of these
[5:49] applications you've touched data that
[5:51] lightbox owns and so it was really cool
[5:54] not necessarily a household name in like
[5:56] consumer applications but very impactful
[6:00] leader because they basically came onto
[6:03] the scene and acquired a bunch of
[6:04] Industry leaders so when I started
[6:06] working at the company they were at
[6:08] seven Acquisitions I believe and when I
[6:11] left they were around 10 and as lead
[6:13] architect I reported to the CTO and I
[6:17] worked I got the opportunity to work
[6:18] with a lot of different teams so it was
[6:21] so cool because you have a bunch of
[6:23] different Technologies
[6:26] Stacks processes and Engineering
[6:29] cultures a lot of people have different
[6:31] sdlcs and different ways they approach
[6:33] them and light Box's perspective was
[6:35] really cool because they largely let
[6:38] teams self-organize so if a team had
[6:40] their certain Sprint Cadence and
[6:42] meetings they really liked lightbox
[6:44] wouldn't really mess with that upon
[6:46] acquisition but more look for the
[6:48] critical connection points where you
[6:50] really want all of technology to be
[6:52] aligned so when it came to things like
[6:54] the release process and like supporting
[6:56] things connecting with infrastructure a
[6:59] lot of that we had the goal of unifying
[7:01] and bringing people together whereas a
[7:04] lot of the dayto day it wasn't too
[7:06] heavy-handed they had teams that liked
[7:07] organizing in different ways and that
[7:09] was totally fine as the lead architect I
[7:12] had a team that I manag and we built a
[7:15] unified API surface so we built lightbox
[7:18] API which provided API access to a lot
[7:21] of data products where in the old days
[7:24] of data products you'd have a lot of
[7:26] fulfillment and a lot of manual
[7:28] processes and there were often data that
[7:31] would be packaged and delivered and this
[7:33] was modernizing a lot of those
[7:35] businesses and making this One-Stop API
[7:38] where you could come and it was all
[7:39] metered and monetized through a portal
[7:42] and so my team worked on that as well as
[7:44] the developer portal that kind of went
[7:46] hand inhand with the API that had all of
[7:48] the documentation and the dashboard to
[7:50] log in and my third project for my team
[7:53] was building a design framework and so
[7:56] using chakra and react we were building
[8:00] our own design framework on top of that
[8:02] so all these teams across the company
[8:05] were able to build applications and
[8:07] build into our next Generation platform
[8:10] with consistent visual language with
[8:12] consistent components and a nice looking
[8:15] feel and so it was really cool to
[8:18] approach some very large challenging
[8:20] projects as a team manager where I was
[8:23] directly responsible for those but then
[8:25] the other side of my role was just going
[8:27] around to a bunch of different
[8:28] engineering teams
[8:30] and so there were different problems
[8:31] different challenges one team working on
[8:33] some backend Services was using Express
[8:37] and building some apis with node and
[8:39] they didn't have a big framework or a
[8:41] big approach for how to do that so
[8:43] working with those Engineers to figure
[8:45] out what's the best way to structure
[8:46] this what technology do we want to
[8:48] leverage and then working with other
[8:51] teams on just helping with the
[8:53] challenges they faced so that week to
[8:56] week was a lot of meetings and a lot of
[8:59] variability but I also got to build Tech
[9:02] all the time and I think that's
[9:03] something I've valued I've been in a
[9:05] couple different what you could call
[9:07] management positions at this point but
[9:09] always as a player coach I've always
[9:11] stayed close to the technology I'm doing
[9:14] code reviews for people on my team as
[9:16] well as other teams and I get to jump
[9:18] into the code and debug and build some
[9:20] features and I think that's been a cool
[9:22] role of the niche of tech management
[9:24] that I've been in is I've always been
[9:27] close to the tech I've always found time
[9:29] even for just higher level decisions on
[9:32] technology direction or Frameworks or
[9:35] tools or other parts of an ecosystem
[9:36] that we're trying to use being able to
[9:39] do prototypes evaluating different
[9:41] options I'm always trying to build
[9:44] things and that was such a cool part of
[9:46] that job was the availability to build
[9:49] stuff consistently even if a lot of my
[9:51] time was management coaching mentoring
[9:54] working with other teams and finding
[9:56] that alignment across the business to so
[10:00] much information in this one you talk
[10:04] about founder CTO CEO working with them
[10:08] and it obviously it require a special
[10:13] skill your executive presence to be able
[10:17] to communicate talk and act normal right
[10:21] so it's a skill and you definitely
[10:24] possess that Kudos on that and then you
[10:28] was talking about the early career and
[10:30] transitioner and those are the two big
[10:34] segment where I also try to help and I
[10:37] know from my experience that when most
[10:41] of the people are shooting for getting
[10:44] somehow get the first job but the
[10:47] journey actually begins when you are in
[10:50] that first job and you spend a month or
[10:54] six month then then how you drive your
[10:58] career to wherever you are trying to
[11:00] drive right so that's a key part for
[11:02] anybody to to get a job and then where
[11:06] they want to take it from two so that's
[11:10] definitely a big big moment and then
[11:13] second once you spend 3 years four years
[11:16] 5 years you feel stuck unless you are
[11:19] thinking
[11:20] strategically in which direction you
[11:22] want to go you don't have to stay
[11:25] developer always you could slide in into
[11:29] a product manager role you could slide
[11:32] into a manager role or architecture role
[11:35] but that has to be your intentional
[11:38] decision um and that has to come from
[11:41] within based on all the signal that you
[11:43] have seen in last 3 years so uh I want
[11:47] to kind of spend few minutes on that
[11:49] what's your take on that when you have a
[11:53] mentee either in the early career or
[11:57] somebody who is looking for a
[11:59] transition what kind of thing that you
[12:02] suggest or you look in in
[12:06] them man so you hit on some really
[12:08] significant things there because I think
[12:10] one of the most important bits of
[12:12] perspective and I needed to learn this
[12:14] myself a career is a long thing I think
[12:17] I read an article recently where it's
[12:18] your average career you're looking at
[12:20] about 40 years and I think it's very
[12:23] easy to hyperfocus on the current stage
[12:26] that we're at to really look at the
[12:28] immediate term and often times you need
[12:31] to right if you're especially if you're
[12:32] looking for that job you're trying to
[12:34] pay your bills the next role is
[12:36] critically important but it's also not
[12:38] going to be your last role and it's not
[12:40] going to Define you either and I think
[12:43] this is something that early in my
[12:45] career in my first couple jobs I had
[12:47] this mentality that I was on a RAC trck
[12:50] and I had to get the best next position
[12:52] possible because that would dictate the
[12:55] rest of my career I had this feeling in
[12:57] my mind maybe it was just a gut feeling
[12:59] but I had this assumption that the next
[13:03] role will Define some huge part of the
[13:06] rest of my career and it's really not
[13:08] true I think that there's so much
[13:10] learning and growth that happens
[13:11] especially early on the most important
[13:14] thing is getting that first role and
[13:17] that can be very challenging in and of
[13:19] itself but I've seen a lot of people
[13:21] especially new graduates from college
[13:24] where they're looking for the job
[13:25] they're passionate about and especially
[13:27] in in my generation I feel like it was a
[13:29] common thing of don't want to just get a
[13:31] job I want to get a passion and there's
[13:34] a book that I read That's incredibly
[13:36] smart um Cal Newport who's an author he
[13:39] has a PHD in computer science he went to
[13:42] MIT very brilliant guy but he has a book
[13:44] called so good they can't ignore you and
[13:47] the subline is why skills Trump passion
[13:51] in finding the best career for your life
[13:54] or something like that or finding a
[13:55] career that you love and he argues
[13:58] against this p hypothesis the idea that
[14:01] if you work a job you or if you do
[14:03] something you love you'll never work a
[14:04] day in your life that's what he calls
[14:06] the passion hypothesis and he debunks it
[14:09] by going through a bunch of the most
[14:11] incredible fulfilling and highlevel
[14:14] careers that people built and then
[14:16] looking at what did they do early in
[14:17] their career and almost all of them
[14:20] started at jobs they weren't passionate
[14:22] about they weren't excited about they
[14:23] were doing the grind for a company that
[14:26] was making some product or doing even
[14:30] news stuff and articles um there are
[14:33] people that started like journalism then
[14:34] went into computer science and he noted
[14:37] how the significant thing is as people
[14:41] develop and build the
[14:43] skills they discover their passion and
[14:46] then almost none of these individuals
[14:47] started their career with this idea of
[14:49] I'm going to do this thing because it's
[14:52] what I'm I like the most they went and
[14:55] got a job they worked to pay their bills
[14:58] and to build their skills
[14:59] but over the course of building their
[15:01] skills over years and years they worked
[15:04] their way into the most fulfilling
[15:06] career and so that's something that I
[15:08] emphasize with people is don't set your
[15:11] expectations too high and don't get too
[15:14] picky because the reality is when you
[15:16] start whether you're a career
[15:18] transitioner or you're fresh out of
[15:20] college ironically having a computer
[15:23] science degree I think gives a lot of
[15:25] false confidence when the reality is
[15:29] when you walk into that first workplace
[15:31] you're not using a lot of what you
[15:33] learned in your classes and I don't
[15:35] think that's a bad thing but the
[15:37] day-to-day looks very different and
[15:38] there are so many areas of working for a
[15:41] company that you learn and pick up along
[15:44] the way whether it's their specific
[15:46] software development life cycle how they
[15:48] handle code versioning and pull requests
[15:50] and all of that or whether it's just
[15:52] working with a manager working with a
[15:54] team describing your problems well
[15:56] getting requirements from product people
[15:59] people there's so much that's in there
[16:01] and you realistically can't expect a
[16:03] school or a boot camp or a program to
[16:06] teach you all of that so I think that
[16:08] the value is going in and understanding
[16:12] how much you have to learn especially
[16:14] early on where you can't waste a year
[16:18] really if you spend a year anywhere no
[16:20] matter how little you like that company
[16:23] you're going to build so many skills
[16:25] you're going to build so much
[16:26] understanding and awareness and you
[16:27] might find something you absolutely fall
[16:29] in love with but I like C's mentality
[16:32] that you develop the skills you develop
[16:35] the Craftsman mindset and ultimately
[16:38] you're going to discover passion through
[16:40] that that it's more about being
[16:42] incredibly competent and building that
[16:44] competence over time that leads to that
[16:47] really fulfilling and exciting career
[16:50] and so I try to preach that a lot with
[16:52] people especially when they're looking
[16:53] at the first couple jobs it's focus on
[16:56] yourself what you're learning how you're
[16:59] growing and you can do most of those
[17:01] things anywhere the reality is there's
[17:03] so many jobs that will work great for
[17:05] you because what you need to do is do
[17:08] more work learn more about yourself
[17:10] learn more about the field and as you do
[17:13] that you're going to grow in ways that
[17:15] are totally unique to you as a person
[17:17] not necessarily specific to any one
[17:19] company so I try to take that pressure
[17:22] off especially when people I feel like
[17:24] this is more common with University
[17:26] graduates where they feel a lot
[17:29] competition around am I going to get at
[17:31] a Fang company or big Tech or this it's
[17:34] honestly like that doesn't matter
[17:35] because you have people who dropped out
[17:37] and found amazing careers and you have
[17:38] people who went to Google and found
[17:40] amazing careers everybody's path is
[17:42] unique but there's not much that will
[17:45] limit you or restrict you in my opinion
[17:47] as long as you go in identifying your
[17:50] top goal as how can I build and learn
[17:53] the most how can I grow as an individual
[17:56] I think that's the right Focus to have
[17:59] 100% my father always says this one
[18:02] thing that instead of waiting at home
[18:06] for the best job you take the job that
[18:11] is available and then keep looking so
[18:14] that would be a better approach than
[18:17] sitting at home and trying to decline
[18:20] everything unless you get your dream job
[18:22] so my my father always say that and
[18:25] that's what I have I followed after my
[18:28] engineer ing when I couldn't find an
[18:30] engineering job I I started a marketing
[18:34] job which was available and I did that
[18:36] for 10 months and then that allowed me
[18:40] to be in the market that allow me to
[18:43] interact with so many people and that
[18:46] helped me identify the computer is the
[18:48] best thing to do so instead of going
[18:50] after the manufacturing and engineering
[18:53] companies I did a computer course and
[18:56] went into programming the directly
[18:59] indirectly help and the other thing that
[19:01] I always believe and talk about is this
[19:04] I don't know if you have played the dot
[19:06] game where you connect all the dot and
[19:08] end end of that practice or game you see
[19:12] a picture because you connected all the
[19:16] dots in life we do that all the time we
[19:21] work on the left side of the picture or
[19:24] the right side of the picture or top or
[19:27] bottom
[19:29] and at time it feel like the time that
[19:32] we spend building that left side top is
[19:37] wasted like that time has been wasted
[19:41] because now I'm in completely different
[19:43] direction I'm in the right side doing
[19:46] something right for example in my case I
[19:49] did marketing for 10 months and then uh
[19:51] programming and then there was a time
[19:53] when I was a business analyst for a
[19:56] contract but when you see the bigger
[20:00] picture they all had important lessons
[20:04] and important thing that made me who I
[20:07] am
[20:08] today and that also gave me opportunity
[20:11] to to listen to all the signals that I
[20:14] had and now I know that my biggest thing
[20:17] is to help team reach Finish Line that's
[20:22] what the most that's what make me
[20:25] excited most of the time if you give me
[20:28] a timeline and then other people our
[20:32] directors VPS or team members saying we
[20:35] cannot hit this that gave me so much
[20:38] excitement let's do it we will if it is
[20:41] important for sure great discussion
[20:44] great discussion thank you for sharing
[20:45] your thoughts on
[20:47] that I want to touch on light boox
[20:51] company
[20:53] so couple of question there how long it
[20:55] was
[20:56] there about three three
[20:59] years okay and then when you joined you
[21:02] were working for them as an architect
[21:04] lead architect but when you joined what
[21:06] was your
[21:07] role I joined as lead architect I was
[21:10] initially reporting to a VP of
[21:12] engineering so initially I worked with a
[21:14] VP on the application platform and then
[21:19] ultimately transition where I was
[21:21] reporting to the CTO so my title didn't
[21:23] change but the role changed and
[21:25] especially the breadth of things I
[21:28] spanned at that point I started working
[21:30] with a lot more teams and engineering
[21:32] and working on a lot more projects um
[21:34] and that was cool to get that broader
[21:37] exposure to get experience with more
[21:39] Technologies and just learned a lot and
[21:42] worked with a lot of amazing people in
[21:43] my time there awesome and then if you
[21:46] don't mind may I ask why did you leave
[21:49] that
[21:49] company so leaving was to pursue a bit
[21:52] of a passion project of my own you know
[21:54] it was setting out on doing some content
[21:57] creation and kind of looking at at what
[22:00] that would look like to build more
[22:02] educational resources and stuff
[22:04] ultimately I didn't make as much
[22:06] progress on that stuff in the last six
[22:08] months as I would have liked and in many
[22:09] ways it it turned into a sabatical too
[22:11] we had some health issues in our family
[22:13] and so that was the major thing was
[22:15] especially in the US healthc care being
[22:17] wrapped up in employment is not the best
[22:19] system losing my health care from my
[22:21] employer then immediately having some
[22:23] serious health issues was difficult but
[22:27] there was a few months there where I was
[22:29] really just there for my family and
[22:31] focused on my family and myself but yeah
[22:34] it was leaving light boox was not for a
[22:38] new company or opportunity that was
[22:40] there and it wasn't out of total hatred
[22:43] for light box or anything like that it
[22:45] was a really good relationship and even
[22:48] after I left lightbox I stopped working
[22:50] full-time but I still did some contract
[22:53] work for them so I get through pretty
[22:54] much the rest of the year um helping out
[22:56] with certain projects and even that was
[22:58] cool stay connected to some of those
[23:00] individuals and teams and be able to see
[23:04] those projects across the finish line
[23:06] but yeah it was leaving light box was a
[23:08] I'm going to try this independent thing
[23:10] and see how it goes and try to build up
[23:11] a bit of a client base and then just
[23:14] recently last few weeks ago restarted my
[23:17] full-time job search and that was two
[23:21] pieces one when I was planning to leave
[23:23] lightbox I set those plans way ahead of
[23:25] time right so I was actively working to
[23:28] manage myself out of that role one of
[23:31] the architects who reported to me became
[23:33] a manager and he took parts and then
[23:35] some of my engineers and Architects
[23:38] actually went to other teams where they
[23:39] filled a really good role they were
[23:41] mostly servicing a different team
[23:43] anyways like the the architect that was
[23:45] primary on the front end design
[23:47] framework there was a react team that
[23:48] was really strong in building a lot of
[23:50] those apps and it made sense for him to
[23:52] go there I managed myself out of that
[23:55] position well and all of the seeds I'd
[23:57] been planting over three years as a
[23:59] manager really blossomed and seeing
[24:01] those teams and individuals come up was
[24:04] an amazingly fulfilling part of that job
[24:06] but it also meant there wasn't as much
[24:08] of a space for me anymore I I still meet
[24:10] with the CTO I'm good friends with him
[24:12] we had lunch just about a month ago and
[24:14] it's funny talking to him where it's
[24:16] like a lot of the needs that I was
[24:18] filling two years ago a year ago those
[24:21] needs aren't there anymore and that's
[24:23] fantastic for that company but I think
[24:25] it was that paired with a desire for new
[24:27] experience
[24:28] looking around at the industry and
[24:30] wanting to get a fresh experience that
[24:33] ultimately led me to not just go back to
[24:35] light box but still have amazing
[24:37] relationships to all the people that I
[24:39] worked with there so yeah it wasn't
[24:41] wasn't anything major any huge motivator
[24:43] it was I'm going to take a chance and
[24:45] try this independent thing and see how
[24:46] it
[24:47] goes so how long were you thinking
[24:51] about doing this was it a t that run for
[24:56] a couple of weeks or was were you
[24:58] thinking about it for
[25:01] months oh it's been years frankly I had
[25:05] there were different forms of the idea
[25:08] and kind of the passion behind It
[25:10] ultimately creating content is something
[25:13] that impacted my life really well so
[25:16] during the pandemic and my job at
[25:18] lightbox I had to move around and learn
[25:21] so much Tech I was constantly learning
[25:23] new things and I found out partway
[25:26] through what blew my mind a little bit
[25:27] was some of the the best resources for
[25:29] learning things especially with some of
[25:31] the react and like the front end
[25:32] ecosystem some of the best resources
[25:34] were YouTube videos you have these
[25:37] YouTubers who are creating educational
[25:39] content they're not introductory level
[25:42] Engineers these are senior Engineers
[25:44] people like Jack Harrington he's got a
[25:46] channel called blue color coder and he
[25:48] would break down architectural patterns
[25:50] he would break down new framework
[25:52] features in this really detailed but
[25:54] concise way where I could watch a 10 to
[25:57] 20 minute YouTube video and understand
[26:00] and get all of the training that might
[26:02] have taken me an hour of reading docs to
[26:04] get that information and that was
[26:07] something that was so helpful in my
[26:08] career I thought that was so cool I was
[26:10] like this is great that there's people
[26:11] out there who are passionate and
[26:13] knowledgeable and put this information
[26:15] onto the world because it's so
[26:17] accessible and I always loved that side
[26:19] of it but during the pandemic especially
[26:22] in the United States there was just a
[26:23] lot of difficulty with social situations
[26:27] and going out and all the crazy stuff
[26:30] that we went through um but there was a
[26:32] lot of social connection as well whether
[26:34] it was on Twitter uh YouTube channels
[26:39] discords a lot of Discord communities I
[26:41] found multiple avenues for connecting
[26:44] with developers and talking with other
[26:46] Engineers that was just personally
[26:48] encouraging getting onto a Twitter space
[26:50] and talking with people like you and
[26:51] hearing about these problems get some of
[26:54] that social scratch that I was looking
[26:57] for especially during the pandemic so on
[26:59] both sides there was an informational
[27:01] Gap that I think is filled very well by
[27:03] content creators these days and also a
[27:06] community aspect that was encouraging as
[27:09] well as again giving more opportunity
[27:12] for social interaction in times where it
[27:14] was difficult in the country and so that
[27:17] was the start of it that inspired me
[27:18] just seeing wow it's so cool how much
[27:20] value and how much encouragement I've
[27:23] gotten because there are people out
[27:25] there who just go on Twitter and start a
[27:27] TW space and bring in a bunch of people
[27:29] and have these amazing conversations or
[27:32] push the record button on a camera and
[27:33] take YouTube videos and if I could do
[27:36] that in a similar way that would be so
[27:39] rewarding that would be so cool so that
[27:41] was the beginning of that inspiration
[27:43] and yeah it it was like years ago and
[27:45] there was a lot of time where I like I
[27:47] was slowly learning video editing and
[27:49] slowly building skills and learning
[27:51] different bits of tech and never
[27:53] produced as much as I would have liked
[27:55] even today I'd like to put out more
[27:56] YouTube videos there's a lot of fear and
[27:59] things that kind of hold me back from
[28:00] that even though I know better in my
[28:02] mind I know to I'm not going to make a
[28:05] perfect video I'm not going to be the
[28:07] best voice on anything but the practice
[28:09] of just creating stuff and putting
[28:11] yourself out there has been really
[28:13] fulfilling but yeah so it was a long
[28:15] time that I was planning it and I think
[28:17] part of that too I've got a wife and two
[28:19] beautiful kids and your whole
[28:22] perspective on risk changes a lot when
[28:25] you have family dependent on you so even
[28:27] that the year leading up to leaving
[28:29] light box that was a big part of it was
[28:32] just thinking through things we saved a
[28:34] lot of money so we would have a Runway
[28:36] where I didn't need to bring in money
[28:38] immediately I didn't need to like
[28:39] instantly get contracts and everything
[28:41] to pay the bills and that all went into
[28:44] it but it was a very long-term
[28:47] perspective and again even the teams at
[28:49] lightbox I didn't want to fall off the
[28:51] face of the Earth and leave people in a
[28:53] Lurch so there was a lot of planning
[28:55] that went in even in how I was mentoring
[28:57] some people on my team knowing that I
[28:59] would want them in the future to to step
[29:01] up and take some of these either
[29:03] additional responsibilities management
[29:05] roles or moving to other teams I just
[29:08] wanted to leave everybody in the best
[29:10] place they could be so it was a very
[29:12] planned and long-term perspective and I
[29:14] think that was super helpful with the
[29:16] transition as well thank you for sharing
[29:19] that one last follow-up question on this
[29:21] one is when you left the job and then
[29:25] started doing your own things
[29:28] obviously when you're working projects
[29:31] are given by them by the company you
[29:34] have big problem to solve you have a
[29:37] structure and then you come into your
[29:39] own content creation your consultation
[29:42] and everything and you have to do
[29:43] everything by your own you have to
[29:45] create your own schedule you have to
[29:48] bring your own discipline as well so how
[29:51] did you handle all
[29:53] that yeah so this gets into kind of that
[29:57] goal setting and time management
[29:59] conversation and it's incredibly
[30:02] important because there was something I
[30:04] heard early on in life where it's like
[30:06] whenever somebody says I don't have time
[30:09] for something that's technically a lie
[30:12] what they're really saying is this thing
[30:14] is not a priority it's not enough of a
[30:16] priority to Warrant my time which is
[30:19] totally fine there nothing against that
[30:20] we all have a set of priorities but you
[30:23] really have to think in those terms
[30:25] because if you make something a high
[30:26] enough priority you're going to find
[30:28] time for that and I think it's
[30:31] especially in today's a there's so much
[30:34] to fill our time to fill our plates with
[30:37] there's so much busyness even just like
[30:40] staying up to date in technology or in
[30:43] world events like there's so much news
[30:45] and media and things that can V for our
[30:47] attention and for me it's been about
[30:50] intentional identification of your
[30:52] priorities so it's really sitting down
[30:55] and intentionally thinking through what
[30:57] are my PR priorities and is my time
[31:00] spent aligning with that I think that I
[31:04] was in college I was diagnosed with ADHD
[31:06] and so it's something that's also makes
[31:08] it even more important is focus does not
[31:10] come naturally to me and it's not always
[31:13] easy to stay on the same task or the
[31:16] same track of thinking and so goal
[31:19] setting and identifying priorities and
[31:22] identifying values I think are very
[31:23] critical for this so one sitting down
[31:26] and being honest about okay what are the
[31:28] most critical things for me to work on
[31:30] and let me make sure I've got my
[31:32] priorities straight and a chunk of that
[31:34] is going to be non-w work stuff there's
[31:36] family in there making sure that I have
[31:38] time to spend with my son every day and
[31:40] that I'm not neglecting that time making
[31:44] sure that I make time for my wife and
[31:46] that we connect and we make date nights
[31:49] together and do fun things there's so
[31:51] much that you have to balance and by
[31:53] sitting down and thinking through the
[31:55] priorities I think it's most helpful to
[31:58] see what's being underserved and
[32:01] especially early on that was easy there
[32:03] was so much to focus on there was so
[32:04] many different things to do it was easy
[32:06] for me to let something naturally fall
[32:10] not to the bottom of the list but below
[32:12] the point in your list where it gets
[32:14] attention right because that's the thing
[32:15] is we have our set of priorities it's
[32:17] always pretty much always going to be
[32:19] more than we have time to commit to
[32:21] every week and so there's somewhere in
[32:23] the list that'll get a cut off where
[32:26] unless something's really light or you
[32:28] have extra time on a week like you're
[32:30] not going to make it all the way down
[32:31] this huge list of things you could be
[32:33] doing every single week and so you want
[32:36] to be aware of what are the things that
[32:38] I am consistently putting time in
[32:40] because they're my top three priorities
[32:41] I'm going to do that I'm going to show
[32:43] up to my meetings I'm going to talk with
[32:44] clients I'm going to do the work on the
[32:46] projects that I need but then you get
[32:48] further down the list and you have to
[32:50] think okay if this thing is a priority
[32:53] long term but it's been far enough down
[32:55] the list that I haven't spent an hour on
[32:57] it in the last two weeks okay what do I
[32:59] need to change to make sure I'm at least
[33:00] investing some time in that consistently
[33:03] and reviewing my priorities I think
[33:05] helped a lot with that and then focus on
[33:08] a day-to-day thing is is very difficult
[33:11] with ADHD and I think I've learned a lot
[33:13] of little tactics and techniques but a
[33:16] lot of it is fairly straightforward
[33:19] stuff that you hear about a lot so
[33:20] setting timers for things time blocking
[33:23] my schedule I learned a lot about time
[33:25] blocking the last three years and I
[33:27] think that was actually another Cal
[33:29] Newport book I've actually got it right
[33:31] here there's a journal the time block
[33:33] planner and I'm pretty sure this is also
[33:35] put out by Cal Newport yeah because it's
[33:38] a daily method for deep work in a
[33:39] distracted World So Cal Newport also
[33:41] wrote a book called Deep work that's
[33:42] very
[33:43] influential and the thing with time
[33:46] blocking is that it's not rigid
[33:48] schedules there are times where I sit
[33:50] down and I time block my whole day and I
[33:52] hold to nothing on there it totally
[33:54] changes and it's very Flex one I think
[33:57] that's what made it easier for me to
[33:58] approach is understanding I set a plan I
[34:01] put in a structure but it's all a loose
[34:04] blueprint and I'm not going to hold my
[34:07] toes to the fire for things to go
[34:10] exactly minute by minute how I planned
[34:12] but even that General awareness where I
[34:14] can sketch out my day and get a feeling
[34:15] and then go okay here's where I have an
[34:17] hour block here's my priority list and
[34:20] that thing I haven't gotten to okay let
[34:21] me put that in there and have an hour
[34:23] where I really focus on this thing that
[34:25] I might otherwise not find the time to
[34:27] focus on
[34:28] so I think time blocking as well as time
[34:31] tracking which I've done in the past
[34:32] using apps like rescue time or toggle
[34:35] that reflection can be very helpful so
[34:38] it's not just the time blocking of
[34:39] planning how you're going to use your
[34:41] time which I do not always hold to to be
[34:44] clear I make plans and I frequently
[34:46] break them or I end up taking that hour
[34:48] and just relaxing with that time or
[34:50] going and watching some TV with my wife
[34:52] and that's fine I think having that
[34:53] Grace for yourself is critical but
[34:55] developing more and more of an awareness
[34:57] of where your time goes in the day was
[34:59] the biggest thing for me personally and
[35:02] that came through periods of time
[35:03] tracking mainly when I would review it
[35:06] so I would track all of my time and some
[35:08] jobs had it sometimes this was for a job
[35:10] sometimes it was just personal but you
[35:12] have to go and look back too there's
[35:14] some moment of reflection and that's
[35:16] when I think we understand better where
[35:18] our time goes and then the planning
[35:20] process as well where you sit down you
[35:22] plan around your day because that's
[35:24] where you'll sometimes discover really
[35:27] awesome pocket of time that you can
[35:28] utilize more if you want to put more
[35:30] time into something or you're trying to
[35:31] work on a side project or whatever that
[35:33] may be when you have that priority that
[35:35] you're trying to push up to the point
[35:36] where you're like I will spend a couple
[35:38] hours on this thing over the next month
[35:40] when you do the preparation and planning
[35:43] for your day to set out and map out your
[35:45] time blocks even if it's loose and your
[35:47] things come up you have different random
[35:49] meetings during the day whatever it is
[35:50] you don't need to hold exactly to it but
[35:53] the practice of planning it is going to
[35:56] help you to discover and learn more
[35:58] about how time really works in your role
[36:01] and in your position in your life I used
[36:04] this for my
[36:07] timer I love that I just got quick yeah
[36:11] it just you change it like this and then
[36:14] there's your 15minute
[36:16] timer that's so cool yeah I've got a
[36:19] very boring analog version but I've got
[36:21] an analog timer here and so you just
[36:24] twist around you'll get a a little time
[36:26] slot and this is something that I've
[36:28] used personally so this is helpful even
[36:30] when I'm streaming so I've streamed
[36:33] before and I've done co-working streams
[36:34] where I'm not even showing my screen I'm
[36:37] just streaming and I'm like I have to
[36:40] work through a couple tasks and so I
[36:42] have the camera off to the side where
[36:43] you can see my desk and I'll use this
[36:45] timer to say okay this is when I'm going
[36:47] to take a break and talk to chat and
[36:48] hang out and so the whole stream can see
[36:50] this visual indicator and then it goes
[36:53] off and I'm like okay cool I get my
[36:55] break now and I get to hang out with
[36:56] chat and talk about projects or answer
[36:59] questions or whatever it is but yeah I
[37:01] think the I think timers are an
[37:02] incredibly valuable tool just to make
[37:04] sure you're when you find the time when
[37:07] you have the time you want to dedicate
[37:08] to something holding yourself to that
[37:11] and it's not about tracking every minute
[37:13] for an employer or being super detailed
[37:17] about exactly it's not about a very
[37:20] strict schedule it's more about the
[37:22] personal empowerment that you get from
[37:24] an awareness of your time and when you
[37:26] prioritize a Time block and you use a
[37:28] timer to say okay this is the only thing
[37:30] I'm going to focus on it feels essential
[37:32] for me often times the ADHD where I'm
[37:33] like I don't even know if I I will try
[37:36] to look at something on my phone or try
[37:37] to get distracted by something else
[37:39] going on every five or 10 minutes if it
[37:42] weren't for this but having a visual
[37:44] timer in front of you and knowing no
[37:47] I've promised myself the next 15 minutes
[37:49] are going to be just this one thing it
[37:51] can really help you bring yourself back
[37:53] and and escape from the distractions and
[37:56] break out of that Loop of things trying
[37:58] to V for your
[38:00] attention I want to get into streaming I
[38:03] have not tried that yet uh but i' been
[38:06] thinking about it what software are you
[38:10] using so I'm using OBS so it's open
[38:14] broadcaster so with that you can stream
[38:16] to one application at a time right yep
[38:20] so open broadcastter software and
[38:22] there's a plugin that allows you to
[38:25] Multiplex the signal so you can
[38:27] multistream I think it's called multi
[38:29] rtmp is a plugin and so you can send a
[38:33] stream to multiple sources so you could
[38:35] stream to Twitch and YouTube or Twitter
[38:37] or whatever but it uses more bandwidth
[38:40] from your computer so it's basically
[38:42] you're limited by your network at some
[38:44] level of how many bits you can push over
[38:47] the wire there are Services as well like
[38:51] restream.io and they do the same thing
[38:53] but on the server side where you stream
[38:55] to one destination and then they
[38:57] multistream the signal from there and
[38:59] there's some other features and things
[39:01] built into services like that but yeah
[39:03] so you can stream to multiple platforms
[39:05] but by default OBS just does one
[39:07] platform you put in your URL and your
[39:10] key for a specific platform to go there
[39:13] okay and a couple of Rapid Fire question
[39:18] what's dat plan for content in next six
[39:21] month or two years where where n need
[39:25] want to reach
[39:29] so my biggest goal with content is to
[39:31] get to 50 YouTube videos and that's
[39:34] frankly just I need to put in the Reps I
[39:36] need to make more videos it's the
[39:38] ultimate streaming is very fun but I
[39:41] think YouTube video content is where my
[39:44] goal really is because it's more
[39:46] digestible it's more lasting a lot of
[39:49] like Twitter and YouTube and or Not
[39:52] Sorry Twitter twitch even like Tik Tok
[39:54] and Instagram and these short form
[39:56] platforms
[39:58] the content is more ephemeral so you put
[40:00] out a tweet that tweets out of the life
[40:03] cycle in a day or two you put out a
[40:05] short video it's probably off of feeds
[40:08] within a week whereas good YouTube
[40:11] videos are around for a while and
[40:12] they're a great resource and I think
[40:14] they're really helpful so my goal is to
[40:16] build up conceptually and have a little
[40:18] bit of a road map to touch on different
[40:20] topics that I'm really passionate about
[40:22] and or that I've just learned a lot
[40:24] about I don't think I'm the best expert
[40:27] on anything and that's part of the
[40:29] confidence I've had to wrestle with but
[40:32] main goal is just 50 videos because I
[40:33] need to put in a lot of time and effort
[40:35] if I'm going to get good at it so I'm
[40:36] setting my goal at output and not
[40:39] quality and it's it's hard for me as a
[40:41] perfectionist but that's where I'd like
[40:43] to get just keep doing it that's perfect
[40:45] and when I started my YouTube uh Channel
[40:48] I but I'm not sure if I can face my
[40:51] camera all the time so I came up with
[40:54] this idea of doing a podcast where I let
[40:57] other person do the books to the
[40:59] talking but I'm still that's a
[41:02] great yeah it's a great strategy the
[41:04] fear of recording is huge and I think
[41:08] I've given presentations in person I've
[41:12] given presentations on Zoom to many
[41:15] participants but there's something about
[41:17] pushing the record button on something
[41:19] that you're going to edit and you're
[41:20] going to put up on the internet and it's
[41:22] going to be there forever it's scary and
[41:24] it's difficult and I definitely yeah I
[41:26] don't want to sell that but I love your
[41:28] approach that's such a good strategy is
[41:30] doing a podcast it's a conversation it's
[41:33] easier to forget the fact that there's
[41:35] something recording and you get to
[41:38] engage with a human which I think is
[41:39] much easier just sitting alone and
[41:41] talking to yourself can be like the
[41:43] scariest part of recording sometimes is
[41:46] it feels awkward even just to sit there
[41:48] and talk to a camera um or like with
[41:51] streaming you're still there's people
[41:53] there's interaction it feels there's
[41:54] more to distract you from the fact that
[41:56] there's a camera on your face yes right
[41:58] right and my situation was completely
[42:00] different that I get so much nervous if
[42:05] I'm presenting even to my team or if
[42:08] this is a bigger meeting I just my hands
[42:11] all everything is so nervous but now
[42:15] just last week I presented to a big
[42:18] audience they are all senior executive
[42:21] and it was an amazing
[42:23] presentation and thanks to all the rep
[42:26] that I have in spaces in YouTube videos
[42:30] and everything else I I I'm feeling more
[42:34] and more comfortable now so that's
[42:38] awesome and that's such a big Point too
[42:40] I gave a talk at that conference on
[42:43] cultivating confidence because I think
[42:45] confidence is such a critically
[42:47] important thing I
[42:49] saw I saw the record thank you yeah it
[42:52] was it was really fun it's a topic
[42:54] that's near and dear to my heart but I
[42:56] love the idea that you can develop it in
[42:59] little ways in little practices but it's
[43:03] all about the Reps it's all about
[43:04] getting in practice and getting reps and
[43:06] I love Twitter spaces for that so that
[43:08] was like when I first got into Twitter
[43:09] spaces and one of my favorite ones I
[43:11] haven't been to it for a long time but
[43:14] it's Tim Brown has a confident speaking
[43:16] space and that space he says this is a a
[43:19] stage for anybody to join and you can
[43:21] come up and just get some practice
[43:22] talking and I think public speaking is
[43:25] one of the biggest fears
[43:27] there are surveys where public speaking
[43:30] outranks death as a fear where people
[43:32] are literally more afraid of getting on
[43:34] a stage in front of a bunch of people
[43:36] then they are thinking about dying and
[43:39] it it just goes to show that you're not
[43:40] alone and there's a lot of people in
[43:42] that boat and there's not a magic
[43:45] formula for it I think it is that
[43:48] developing the comfort and building the
[43:49] muscles over time so even if it's giving
[43:53] a lunch and learn presentation to your
[43:55] company if it's joining a Twitter space
[43:57] And discussing some technical content or
[43:59] if it's streaming on Twitch and talking
[44:01] to two viewers you know a lot of people
[44:03] start streaming on Twitch and it's very
[44:05] hard to get past the five viewer Mark
[44:07] like it's very rare lots of early
[44:09] streamers you sit at zero to five
[44:11] viewers for quite a while unless you
[44:12] have an audience from somewhere else but
[44:14] I've seen people that do that and they
[44:16] get one person in chat and they're
[44:18] speaking publicly they're talking and
[44:19] they're engaging With Their audience so
[44:21] I think whatever small methods of
[44:24] practice you can find are really
[44:26] impactful
[44:27] if you do them and you just do that
[44:29] consistently and that's what I always
[44:30] encourage people doesn't matter if it
[44:32] feels small doesn't matter if there's a
[44:34] tiny audience it's all about developing
[44:36] that confidence over time and you just
[44:38] do that by putting in reps you know the
[44:41] best part about your that video or your
[44:45] presentation in that conference
[44:47] is you started with a chunk and you
[44:51] settled in and then you added another
[44:55] chunk you settled end and then another
[44:58] chunk you covered a lot but it did not
[45:02] feel like a lot toward the end I was
[45:05] feeling like oh my God you have shared a
[45:09] lot but didn't not feel like
[45:12] overwhelming so that was a feedback if
[45:16] you
[45:17] want thank you I I do appreciate that
[45:20] and yeah it was tough to think about how
[45:22] to organize it because I was really
[45:24] trying to combine the last five years of
[45:27] kind of experiences and and different
[45:29] forms of this I'd seen throughout
[45:31] industry um but yeah thank you I I
[45:33] appreciate that feedback we are at 5:55
[45:37] uh I don't know how much buffer time you
[45:41] have I could go a few minutes over I
[45:43] don't have a hard stop so I could go
[45:44] five or 10 over okay two question why n
[45:48] is looking for a job now
[45:51] and how does it feel to apply the same
[45:55] type of tech te and a strategy that you
[45:58] have been sharing to other people your
[46:01] mentees for this job search sorry what
[46:04] was the first question was the first why
[46:06] you decided to go back to 9 to so the
[46:10] why is very simple so that I didn't
[46:13] obliterate all of my savings I set
[46:15] Revenue targets and so I had a revenue
[46:17] Target to hit by the end of February
[46:19] with my Independent Business and I
[46:21] didn't make that goal and so it's part
[46:23] of that risk tolerance I was talking
[46:25] about with having a family we're not I'm
[46:28] not poor we're able to pay our bills and
[46:30] everything but we had this chunk of
[46:33] money set aside and I one I didn't want
[46:36] to get to the point where I was actually
[46:38] like dipping into savings or having to
[46:40] you know take a tax hit trying to
[46:42] liquidate retirement funds or anything
[46:43] like that so I set a goal on the revenue
[46:46] to make sure that I would become
[46:47] sustainable before anything got to that
[46:49] point so that was literally I set a goal
[46:52] I didn't hit it and my point was I'm
[46:54] going to go and I'm going to go back to
[46:55] full-time job search to make sure that
[46:57] I'm sustainable and it's going to be a
[46:59] different kind of Journey I don't like
[47:00] to think of it as a failure although I
[47:02] often do in many ways but it was good to
[47:06] set that for making sure that I stay in
[47:09] a good place with our finances and that
[47:11] our family is secure so that was the
[47:14] main thing the cool part is it has been
[47:17] encouraging in that and I do this a lot
[47:21] with stuff where it feels cheesy to
[47:23] present certain things when I need to
[47:26] hear it myself right even my confidence
[47:28] talk like the day before I gave the
[47:30] confidence talk I was getting all kinds
[47:33] of second guesses where I was like I
[47:34] shouldn't be talking on a stage I'm not
[47:36] very confident what the heck am I doing
[47:38] with my life but I think it's relevant
[47:40] to just The Human Experience and there's
[47:43] a lot of problems that I think it's
[47:44] important people understand there are
[47:47] some problems we feel like are a
[47:50] lowlevel problem or a beginner problem
[47:54] and there are so many problems that all
[47:56] human 's experience and it doesn't
[47:58] matter if you're extremely experienced
[47:59] or if you're brand new in the industry I
[48:01] think there's a lot more shared
[48:04] experience and understanding of things
[48:07] and so talking with my mentees talking
[48:09] them through interview processes
[48:10] reassuring them when there's rejections
[48:13] all of that is just in the top of my
[48:15] mind as I'm going through the same
[48:17] experiences and I think it speaks to how
[48:20] similar so many life experiences are
[48:22] even if you're at different stages of
[48:23] your career or different phases of life
[48:26] and different Seasons but a lot of it is
[48:29] just generally good advice is always
[48:32] good advice I'm doing a lot of
[48:34] interviews and sending out a lot of
[48:35] applications one thing I tell my mentees
[48:38] is especially in today's job market it's
[48:40] not an easy job market in Tech there's a
[48:42] lot of difficult factors so you don't
[48:44] set your sites on Landing one job or on
[48:48] a specific job but you set your goal on
[48:50] how many applications am I going to send
[48:52] out each week and how many rejections
[48:55] can I get to and even setting rejections
[48:58] is a metric where I'm like hey I want to
[48:59] get rejected 20 times to know that I'm
[49:02] working hard when you set your goals on
[49:04] things like that one it gives you a bit
[49:06] of a positive metric so if you get a
[49:08] rejection you're like hey that's one of
[49:09] 20 I just got to go a little further and
[49:11] I got to I got to get 19 more of those
[49:13] and it makes your goals more in your
[49:16] control as well and you can't you cannot
[49:19] guarantee that you're going to get a
[49:21] certain number of interviews or that
[49:24] you're going to get certain companies
[49:26] like you're just not in control of that
[49:28] and there's so many factors that often
[49:30] times don't even have to do with you
[49:32] right some positions you could get a
[49:33] rejection it's not that you were a bad
[49:35] candidate it's that they had an amazing
[49:37] candidate right so many of these I've
[49:39] been on the other end of the they
[49:41] different kind of fit they were looking
[49:43] for a different kind of even though
[49:45] looking for a different skill set
[49:46] they're looking for a different
[49:47] background whatever it is it's not
[49:49] always a reflection on you and I even go
[49:51] further to say most of the time it's not
[49:53] a negative reflection on you even if you
[49:56] didn't measure up to somebody else you
[49:58] shouldn't be thinking about yourself in
[49:59] those terms you should be thinking about
[50:01] yourself as an individual and how far
[50:03] you have grown there's a great quote
[50:06] that Prime has talked about a lot where
[50:07] comparison is the thief of joy and I
[50:10] think that's really true where we can't
[50:11] always be comparing ourselves to other
[50:13] people we should be comparing ourselves
[50:16] to ourselves from the past and as long
[50:18] as you're growing and that's the growth
[50:20] that you should pursue um and yeah if if
[50:23] there's somebody else that was more
[50:25] qualified or a better fit for this Ro
[50:27] that's not something you should beat
[50:28] yourself up about that's not a failure
[50:30] for you and even more it's a victory cuz
[50:33] you've got one more rejection in the
[50:34] books and you're grinding towards that
[50:35] 20 or something a lot of those
[50:37] perspectives have helped me to remind
[50:39] myself and I feel guilty too as somebody
[50:41] trying to teach it when I have those
[50:43] same struggles or thoughts I can feel a
[50:46] little guilty at first of oh man I'm
[50:48] preaching this I should understand it I
[50:50] shouldn't feel this discouragement or
[50:51] whatever it is and it's not true I think
[50:54] there's so much advice that helps
[50:56] everyone one and it's helpful for me to
[50:59] have those things top of mind because
[51:01] I've talked to a lot of people about it
[51:03] it's easy to turn around and preach it
[51:04] to myself and I need it a lot of the
[51:08] time and Nate real quick how was you
[51:11] finding your projects like consultation
[51:13] project during that six
[51:15] month mainly Network so I found those
[51:18] through people I was connected to past
[51:21] employers people that I've connected to
[51:23] through Twitter I think it's been one of
[51:24] the coolest things even in the this
[51:26] current job search so I put out a tweet
[51:28] saying that I'm open to full-time
[51:30] applications and I had so many friends
[51:33] so many people send me DMS leave
[51:36] comments retweet it that tweet got like
[51:38] a hundred retweets which was so humbling
[51:41] I I don't go viral on Twitter I'm not
[51:44] the biggest person on Twitter in terms
[51:46] of Engagement and Views and things going
[51:49] by like that's just not really what I do
[51:51] with the platform or how I I'm not witty
[51:53] enough or smart enough whatever you want
[51:54] to say and so to see that much
[51:57] engagement and that much support from
[51:59] the community was incredible and I've
[52:01] gotten referrals I've gotten people
[52:03] sending me job postings like hey I think
[52:05] you would be good for this um so even in
[52:08] the Consulting work there was a lot of
[52:10] that that it came from the community
[52:12] I've invested in and it's been gosh
[52:15] maybe close to three years now CU again
[52:17] I got way more involved online during
[52:19] the pandemic and I I didn't often think
[52:23] of what I was doing as networking right
[52:25] I wasn't looking for another job I
[52:26] wasn't looking for clients I was just
[52:29] connecting with people online and
[52:30] building relationships and even yourself
[52:33] I remember seeing you I think I followed
[52:36] you when you were under 200 followers on
[52:38] Twitter and I remember going to your
[52:40] profile and being like oh wow like this
[52:42] guy doesn't have a lot of followers but
[52:43] he puts out really thoughtful posts like
[52:46] you it was clear you were trying to make
[52:49] very relevant educational posts you were
[52:52] trying to bring value and that was why I
[52:54] followed you I was just like this effort
[52:56] pays off the amount of effort and
[52:58] intentionality that venard is putting
[53:00] into his Twitter and his profile and
[53:03] just what he's putting out into the
[53:04] world that's something I that excites me
[53:07] I see very small accounts when you see
[53:09] that kind of work and
[53:11] intentionality and now where are you at
[53:13] you you blew past thousands and
[53:15] thousands of followers very quickly but
[53:18] I think that's so valuable and it's now
[53:20] I get to speak on a podcast and share
[53:23] some life experience with you and your
[53:24] audience but I think that's just another
[53:26] example of like how much you can develop
[53:29] real relationships through online
[53:32] communities platforms social media
[53:35] whatever it is if you show up and you're
[53:37] genuine and authentic and you want to
[53:39] connect with people there there are many
[53:42] people I met primarily online that I
[53:44] would consider close friends some that
[53:47] I've met in real life over time some
[53:49] that I never met in real life but still
[53:51] have very real relationships that has
[53:53] resulted in business engagements has
[53:55] resulted in in referrals has resulted in
[53:59] them recommending me to other people and
[54:01] I think that's the core of networking
[54:03] and I know you have talked about this on
[54:04] Twitter space and a couple others as
[54:05] well but when you reens networking and
[54:08] look at it as building and developing
[54:10] relationships over time I think that
[54:12] there's so much value in that and yeah
[54:14] for me a lot of them didn't pay off
[54:16] until years later but it never bothered
[54:19] me because I didn't have it that wasn't
[54:21] the first goal it wasn't I was trying to
[54:23] land a job at that moment I was just
[54:25] trying to meet more
[54:27] people yep and I still have friends that
[54:32] I met in my first company and then
[54:35] second then third we had a zoom call
[54:38] with this the friends in the second
[54:40] company just two weeks
[54:42] ago and that was like 22 years after wow
[54:47] yeah yeah so so a network friendship
[54:50] relationship doesn't have to be like
[54:54] mechanical it it's something that you do
[54:56] on a day-to-day life and that's what you
[54:59] could do online as
[55:01] well absolutely and the long time frame
[55:04] too I think it's another thing I spoke
[55:06] earlier about careers are long and I
[55:09] think that's another thing that people
[55:10] don't realize is and a lot of my
[55:13] positions came from people I had worked
[55:15] at in the past and that's super common
[55:18] but it's another reason you don't burn
[55:21] Bridges right and I think that's a big
[55:22] thing is you don't discount people that
[55:24] you worked with in the past even if you
[55:26] have difficulties working with
[55:27] individuals understand everybody's human
[55:30] and everybody's got differences if you
[55:32] didn't work well with somebody at one
[55:33] stage of your life that doesn't make
[55:34] them inherently bad and they may be an
[55:38] amazing person to work with later in
[55:40] life too so I always tell people you
[55:41] don't want to burn any Bridges you want
[55:43] to even if you're leaving a company even
[55:44] if you had a really bad experience for
[55:46] whatever reason you probably talked to
[55:49] and worked with a lot of great people
[55:51] and so hold on to those connections
[55:54] maintain those relationships because
[55:56] again a career is a very long time and
[55:58] you have no idea where other individuals
[56:00] are going to go either a lot of those
[56:02] people won't be at that same company for
[56:03] their whole career and it's incredible
[56:06] how much the fact that you connected
[56:09] with somebody and you worked well with
[56:10] them and they liked you can just come
[56:13] back around later in life and I've seen
[56:15] that so many times I just had a friend
[56:17] from college recommend me on LinkedIn I
[56:19] got a message out of the blue from some
[56:21] guy hiring he was just like hey this guy
[56:25] recommended you I was like I literally
[56:27] have not talked to him in 20 years like
[56:31] how did he even remember me but he did
[56:34] and he saw my post on LinkedIn and we
[56:35] was just like hey this is great I'm
[56:37] going to send this along to a hiring
[56:38] manager so I think that's something in
[56:40] that longterm perspective that's
[56:43] important people remember is just you
[56:45] might not love the company you're
[56:47] working at right now but understand how
[56:50] amazing all the people that you work
[56:52] with are and how much opportunity there
[56:53] is in those relationships 100% %
[56:57] 100% okay all right so as we are getting
[57:03] to the
[57:05] end last two questions and I Chang it a
[57:10] bit you do a lot of mentorship coaching
[57:13] so if somebody have to connect with you
[57:17] and want to get your mentorship how do
[57:20] they approach
[57:22] you the best way to get a hold of me is
[57:24] probably on Twitter at Nate Emerson on
[57:27] Twitter and I respond a lot there my DMs
[57:30] are open so definitely reach out there I
[57:33] have my twitch stream twitch.tv Nate
[57:37] codes and so I've been streaming there
[57:39] weekly and anybody's welcome if you like
[57:42] watching software developers we talk
[57:44] about software Dev stuff we have
[57:45] conversations about the industry and
[57:48] then on from twitch you can find I've
[57:49] got a Discord as well I don't know the
[57:51] link off the top of my head I've got a
[57:53] Discord with some individuals and
[57:54] building up that community yeah but
[57:56] Twitter's probably the easiest I'm on
[57:57] LinkedIn as well so if you find me there
[57:59] anywhere you can send a direct message
[58:01] I'll probably respond I'm not all that
[58:03] popular so I don't get flooded that bad
[58:05] and I'm usually able to stay on top of
[58:07] my
[58:08] DMs all right with that what is your
[58:11] message to the
[58:14] audience do something whatever it is
[58:18] whatever your goal whatever your
[58:21] approach wherever you are in your
[58:23] journey focus on doing something you're
[58:26] not going to do things perfect we never
[58:28] do sometimes you don't even do it well
[58:31] but the important thing is that you're
[58:32] doing something and this is inspired by
[58:36] Jason Lang storf actually who puts out a
[58:38] lot of amazing content he recently and I
[58:40] saw a couple people talking about I
[58:42] forget exactly what it was but they had
[58:43] a catchphrase around it where it's just
[58:45] do something or do something epic or
[58:47] something along those lines but it is so
[58:50] true it is
[58:53] just you there are so many reasons and
[58:57] so much there's so many excuses we can
[59:00] come up with there's so many fears that
[59:02] will hold us back from doing things
[59:04] Jason's bit was hashd doit anyways so I
[59:07] guess I'm contributing to that a little
[59:08] bit because that's been an inspiration
[59:09] is do it anyways there's a bunch of
[59:11] reasons you can come up with for why
[59:13] something's not good or why you're not
[59:14] good enough for something but just do it
[59:17] anyways because you learn and benefit so
[59:21] much through the Journey that the
[59:23] biggest including for myself I need to
[59:25] hear this all the time I need to record
[59:27] more videos I need to just put myself
[59:28] out there more and there are so many
[59:31] people where the biggest regrets that I
[59:33] see don't often come from doing
[59:36] something poorly or doing something
[59:37] imperfectly they come from not doing
[59:40] something and so that's the thing as
[59:41] long as you're doing something there's
[59:43] so much benefit you can get from that
[59:45] there's learnings that can happen
[59:47] there's opportunity surface area if
[59:49] you're building in public if you're
[59:51] posting online others might see that
[59:53] others might Discover it but by just
[59:55] doing something something and putting
[59:56] your all into it even if it doesn't hit
[59:59] whatever the like amazing end result is
[1:00:02] of thousands of followers or exploding
[1:00:05] on some social media platform or
[1:00:06] whatever it is don't set your sites on
[1:00:08] the goal set your sites on the steps and
[1:00:10] then you can consider each step of
[1:00:12] Victory and I think that's a really
[1:00:14] important perspective to maintain is as
[1:00:16] long as you took a step it's not going
[1:00:18] to be a failure because you took that
[1:00:21] step thank you so much Nate for this
[1:00:25] podcast coming being by guest it was fun
[1:00:28] episode I learned a lot about you and
[1:00:31] everything that you have done thank you
[1:00:32] so much for being a
[1:00:35] guest thank you so much for having me