VJ - A Day In The Life of a Google Engineering Manager

[0:00] hello welcome and Namaste to Career
[0:02] Journey podcast where we Deep dive into
[0:04] the lives of tech professional and bring
[0:07] their stories to inspire you I'm your
[0:10] host VOD charma and I'm excited to kick
[0:13] off the second season with an episode
[0:16] that's packed with Insight experience
[0:18] and invaluable
[0:20] advices in this episode we sit down with
[0:23] VJ and engineering manager at Google
[0:26] with an impressive background in Tech PJ
[0:29] KY involved various rol is Bloomberg
[0:31] Amazon and Google BJ also have a solid
[0:35] education background with master in
[0:37] computer science and an MBA in this
[0:40] episode we will explore BJ's approach to
[0:43] Career Development Goal setting and
[0:46] managing work with the life he has
[0:50] shared a lot of tip for early career
[0:52] development and highlighted the
[0:54] importance of growth mindset both
[0:57] professionally and personally whether
[1:00] you are a season Tech developer or just
[1:03] a starting off this episode is filled
[1:05] with lesson and stories that resonate
[1:08] with everyone thriving for road so
[1:11] settle in and get started with this
[1:15] insightful Journey welcome let's dive in
[1:18] and it doesn't matter how you started it
[1:20] doesn't matter how many bumps you get
[1:23] ultimately you reach to the point where
[1:25] you want it as long as you have the
[1:27] clarity and as long as you have the
[1:29] consistency and desire to work so with
[1:31] that wej sir welcome to my podcast you
[1:34] are the first guest for this second
[1:37] season I want to hand over Mike to you
[1:40] tell us about yourself what you do for
[1:42] your full-time job and also what you do
[1:44] to help the developers you've been very
[1:46] active there as well first of all thank
[1:49] you very much VOD I'm very happy and
[1:50] honored to be here and I see you also
[1:52] provide a lot of value on Twitter and
[1:54] that's how we got connected right and I
[1:56] usually try to stay away from
[1:57] controversy or click B stuff and and you
[2:00] are one of the few who who does not get
[2:01] into that and add actual value so
[2:04] definitely happy to connect with you
[2:06] happy to be here uh little bit about of
[2:08] myself uh my name my real name is vit
[2:11] I'm known on Twitter as DJ for my
[2:14] initials and I'm an enging manager at
[2:16] Google uh before I I've been in Google
[2:19] for about two years now and before
[2:21] joining Google I spent about six and a
[2:22] half years in Amazon and before that 10
[2:25] years in Bloomberg I started my career
[2:27] as a developer so when I joined
[2:29] Bloomberg joined as a software developer
[2:31] and I think after about 8 years I
[2:33] transitioned into management so I have
[2:36] about six plus two about 10 years of
[2:39] management experience and 10 years as a
[2:41] developer and I started getting active
[2:43] on social media late 20121 so December
[2:46] 2021 is when I started my YouTube
[2:48] channel I wasn't getting much traction
[2:50] over there I also like talking to people
[2:53] and YouTube is one-way communication so
[2:55] that kind of took a backseat and I
[2:57] started getting more active on Twitter
[2:58] because over there you actually interact
[3:00] with people either while exchanging
[3:02] tweets or also on Spaces where you
[3:04] actually talk to people I've been quite
[3:06] active on Twitter for last year
[3:08] hopefully added some value made some
[3:10] great connections like yourself and I
[3:12] continue to do and I enjoy that so
[3:15] mostly on weekend mornings I hold spaces
[3:17] and I tweet maybe like once or twice a
[3:19] day not super duper active of posting
[3:21] three or five tweets because again I
[3:23] don't like to tweet nonsensical stuff
[3:25] but like this is great I wanted to ask
[3:28] from your Google experience that's dream
[3:31] job for many Americans as well as all
[3:34] over the world like entry to Google so
[3:36] how is that different what's your
[3:38] typical day or a week look like at your
[3:41] work yeah at a high level it isn't that
[3:43] different from being an engineering
[3:45] manager at Amazon right like I look at
[3:48] responsibility of enging managers as
[3:49] like three-fold one is strategic
[3:52] responsibilities tactical
[3:53] responsibilities and people related
[3:55] responsibilities right so under
[3:56] strategic you have like road map
[3:58] planning you think about how do you want
[4:00] to grow the team depending on your
[4:01] vision architectural road map those kind
[4:03] of things also relationship building you
[4:05] could look at it either as strategic or
[4:07] or tactical from the Tactical
[4:09] perspective it is like day-to-day
[4:10] project planning project management
[4:13] stakeholder management these like how do
[4:15] you handle income request in terms of
[4:17] either bugs or features all those things
[4:19] and then people management is also a
[4:21] very important aspect right I do not
[4:23] like to look at manager as bosses who
[4:26] order people what to do right as enging
[4:28] manager it is our respons posibility to
[4:30] help the team grow and grow meaning
[4:32] that's not the grow sizewise but
[4:34] actually help people with their careers
[4:36] and also provide timely and actionable
[4:38] feedback so in either direction help
[4:40] them get to the next level or help them
[4:42] improve their performance if they're not
[4:44] meeting their their bar or if there any
[4:46] conflicts within the team if there are
[4:48] conflicts out with the outside Team all
[4:50] that stuff you need to handle long story
[4:52] short like a typical date does not look
[4:53] like I do this on this day but any of
[4:56] these factors depending on the need uh
[4:58] of that day you will spend uh
[5:00] disproportionate amount of time on one
[5:01] thing sometimes more than the others so
[5:05] it's mix up on all these things so for
[5:07] example year in evaluations obviously a
[5:09] lot more time will go in writing the
[5:11] reviews talking to people Etc early
[5:13] phases of projects will go lot more in
[5:16] like project planning before that it or
[5:19] throughout the year it'll be about some
[5:21] strategic thing that where are we going
[5:23] whatever we have prioritized is that in
[5:24] line with our vision for the team Etc so
[5:27] both these things are common my
[5:28] experience has been
[5:30] across Bloomberg Amazon and and Google
[5:32] how you do those things is like that
[5:35] differs and varies from company to
[5:36] company but overall responsibilities are
[5:37] similar it's amazing how you divided
[5:39] your responsibility in three different
[5:41] areas tactical and people and my
[5:45] experience with most of the new manager
[5:48] even people who are manager and director
[5:50] for 5 10 years they only focus on
[5:53] technical things like for them is this
[5:55] these are the five things that I have to
[5:57] get done and they that's all they focus
[5:59] is no people and no strategical things
[6:03] yeah you're right of course I can't
[6:06] pinpoint at somebody or not but and my
[6:08] observation has been like similar like
[6:10] people take things for granted sometimes
[6:12] they will look at strategic thing also
[6:14] but they tend to ignore the people part
[6:16] like I was very surprised when some of
[6:17] my directs were uh telling me that their
[6:20] previous managers were so bad that they
[6:23] they used to have one-on on in like once
[6:24] in three months or something I like why
[6:27] un Mo in that case right not have it or
[6:30] not give actionable feedback directly
[6:33] provide surprises at the end of the your
[6:35] interview a time and whatnot which to me
[6:38] sounds like common sense that one one
[6:39] should avoid right but apparently it is
[6:42] not a standard practice but that's that
[6:44] I look at it as a as my advantage right
[6:46] if I'm doing this that what I think is
[6:48] very minimum and if that is keeping
[6:50] people happy then that's a good for
[6:52] everybody so how did you develop that
[6:54] sense uh of that you have to
[6:56] holistically cover the people part the
[6:59] strategic part and also deliver things
[7:02] ontime yeah I think it it's been a
[7:03] process I don't think there was like one
[7:05] turning point or one thing that kind of
[7:07] say okay this contributed a lot I've
[7:09] been always a fan of non-fictional
[7:11] reading so I used to read a lot
[7:14] specifically about management
[7:16] productivity personal finance but that
[7:17] is out of scope that's unrelated to this
[7:19] thing but just in terms of productivity
[7:21] and and the management think like the
[7:24] more you read because this is not
[7:25] something that you cover in your
[7:27] education right unless you're going for
[7:28] NBA
[7:29] I by the way I also did part-time MBA
[7:31] from muu and something definitely must
[7:33] have helped from there as well like I I
[7:35] took a couple of General management
[7:37] classes but it wasn't like focused
[7:39] specifically on Engineering Management
[7:41] so I don't think any of those classes
[7:43] were directly tailored for that but all
[7:46] this kind of experience helps so all of
[7:48] these things also observing other good
[7:50] managers that I looked up to observing
[7:52] other managers that I felt B are not
[7:54] doing the things right so you should be
[7:55] learning from every Everybody right like
[7:58] things that you should do and things
[7:59] that you should avoid and and I love to
[8:01] seek feedback right in both what I ask
[8:04] my team members directly tell me what
[8:06] I'm doing well that I should continue
[8:07] doing and tell me what I'm supposed to
[8:09] do little differently or that will help
[8:10] you better it could be like from Team
[8:13] processes perspective or even like
[8:14] working with them and that feedback also
[8:16] helps so you failor your approaches
[8:17] because one of the challenges in enging
[8:19] management is that there is no one size
[8:21] fitall solution right there is there are
[8:23] like different people have different
[8:24] personalities Ambitions and then you
[8:25] have to tailor your approach to them so
[8:27] seeking this feedback doing little extra
[8:30] kind of homework or research on the side
[8:32] of like reading books and understanding
[8:35] what motivates people how do you handle
[8:37] certain situation all of these kind of
[8:39] help me in becoming a better manager
[8:41] over the time awesome which also give
[8:43] you a lot of creditability
[8:45] to be able to mentor and Coach
[8:48] developers who are in their early career
[8:51] like two years experience or four year
[8:53] five year of experience right they all
[8:56] have different kind of aspiration and I
[8:58] always say that find what is your drive
[9:02] before you start shooting for a big
[9:04] company or big technology or big project
[9:07] or whatnot right once you have that
[9:10] understanding then it's easier and
[9:13] effective to go in that direction so my
[9:17] question for you as you have all these
[9:19] experience you have been writing and
[9:21] you've been coaching different people if
[9:24] somebody is in their early Journey like
[9:26] between 2 to 5 year of experience what
[9:29] would be your advice for them so that
[9:33] they can grow their career obviously
[9:36] whatever their aspiration is what would
[9:38] be your advice for that yeah that's it
[9:41] could be a long discussion so I'll touch
[9:42] on few important things that I feel are
[9:45] must have and then on top of that you
[9:47] could build more things right so I think
[9:49] the first thing I would suggest is like
[9:51] being intentional like exactly to your
[9:53] point about finding what drives you but
[9:55] also in addition to that what are your
[9:57] strengths right because it is easier to
[9:59] build up on strengths than try to
[10:01] rectify all the growth areas right like
[10:04] you can probably become mediocre or
[10:06] little more than mediocre if something
[10:08] is not your strength at all right but
[10:09] you could magnify amplify your strength
[10:12] a lot if you focus a lot more on that so
[10:14] having a good balance in looking into
[10:16] both things what drives you what
[10:18] motivates you what you can do
[10:19] sustainably and what do you want to
[10:21] achieve down five years 10 years down
[10:23] the life right like people look at that
[10:24] as interview question and say okay who
[10:26] knows which is true but at least having
[10:28] some kind of guide line that okay I want
[10:30] to try this and I want to be here in 5
[10:32] years or 10 years and then take the your
[10:35] next actions or steps accordingly it is
[10:37] totally okay to Pivot right like by
[10:39] doing whatever you thought that you is
[10:40] needed to get to that level while doing
[10:43] that you may realize that no this is
[10:44] actually not what I want and then you
[10:45] pivot rather than just doing something
[10:48] aimlessly right if you're just doing
[10:49] your job if you're just just executing
[10:51] task after task project after project
[10:53] that is not going to take you far right
[10:55] you need to understand where you want to
[10:57] be and work backwards from that and see
[10:59] okay if I need to get there these are
[11:01] the things that I need to do and then
[11:02] work on those things and then as you
[11:05] work as you get more experience in that
[11:08] area decide whether that is the right
[11:09] path for you or do you need to pivt so
[11:11] being intentional and taking intentional
[11:13] actions and steps is is very critical
[11:16] second thing is as you grow in your
[11:17] career soft skills become really
[11:19] important right like having good
[11:21] technical skill is like a base life your
[11:23] soft skills is not going to overcome
[11:25] being a complete incompetent programmer
[11:27] right but you don't have to like the
[11:29] topnotch programmer you don't have to be
[11:31] the best coder or the coding Competition
[11:33] winner to be successful right you can
[11:35] have good technical skills but then as
[11:37] you build on your soft skills that will
[11:39] help you more and more in progressing
[11:40] your career so focusing on soft skills
[11:42] and this is also to my earlier point is
[11:44] not covered in colleges right so you
[11:46] have to take extra effort to learn that
[11:48] so read books listen to other people
[11:50] network with other people I think
[11:51] networking is very underrated thing like
[11:54] people know but people just look at
[11:55] networking guys okay send LinkedIn
[11:57] request like which which is not right so
[11:59] focusing on these aspects is really
[12:01] important in my opinion and then the
[12:03] last thing is being open to feedback
[12:06] right yes you may have certain ideas
[12:07] about yourself but unless you get
[12:10] feedback from many people like from your
[12:11] manager from your friends from your
[12:13] co-workers you won't really know that
[12:16] what you are what you're doing is
[12:17] actually what is needed to get to the
[12:19] next level and also you cannot be
[12:21] defensive right like perception matters
[12:24] like whether you think that's what you
[12:26] want to do or say but if other person is
[12:28] perceiving it differently then it
[12:29] doesn't matter what you what you feel
[12:31] about yourself right so being aware of
[12:33] those things being open to feedback and
[12:35] continuously learning right I think
[12:36] especially in Tech is really important
[12:38] not to just learn about Technologies
[12:40] which is absolutely important I'm not
[12:41] saying don't do that but don't do just
[12:44] that right keep on improving your soft
[12:45] skills keep on improving anything that
[12:47] helps you take to your timate goal yeah
[12:50] for sure in your post yesterday in one
[12:53] of the Twitter post response was an
[12:55] amazing like it it has a consolidate
[12:59] advice or I say holistic advice to how
[13:03] somebody can I think the response was
[13:05] how to be number one one person in the
[13:08] software Community which is but your
[13:10] response was very realistic covers many
[13:13] different
[13:14] areas I will add that in somewhere in
[13:17] the comment so that people can read that
[13:20] thank you so you started your journey
[13:23] and I personally know your journey from
[13:25] the college to Cafe work as a waiter and
[13:31] then growing from there I want to ask in
[13:35] a manner that with all those situation
[13:39] that you grew from to up to this point
[13:43] you have you've been in Bloomberg you've
[13:45] been in Amazon you've been in Google how
[13:48] did you set these goals like how did you
[13:50] set these big Target and then how did
[13:54] you achieve it that's an interesting
[13:55] question because not all these targets
[13:57] were predetermined or well thought
[13:59] through and some of it I start from the
[14:01] beginning okay and you can tell me
[14:03] either you want to take a specific
[14:05] example or even stop right so Bloomberg
[14:07] was more out of laziness you can say
[14:10] that right for example or that what I
[14:12] mean by that is before joining Bloomberg
[14:14] like during my college like I was pretty
[14:16] decent at like C programming language
[14:18] and and okay in in C++ and this was the
[14:22] end ofcom burst right and at that time
[14:24] like Java was also picking up and uh lot
[14:27] of people like there were many openings
[14:28] for Java and few other things which I
[14:30] was not that comfortable with so my
[14:33] Approach was okay and in my college
[14:35] Bloomberg was one of the well recognized
[14:37] companies that used to come on campus
[14:40] and I was lazy enough to say that okay I
[14:42] don't want to try too hard everywhere I
[14:44] know Bloomberg comes here I know
[14:46] Bloomberg requires good skills in CC
[14:48] plus which I have so let me go all in on
[14:50] that so out of laziness in the sense
[14:53] that okay I didn't want to try for 100
[14:55] different companies like people give 100
[14:56] or 500 interviews and uh then they end
[14:59] up this thing but my Approach was okay
[15:02] this is my target this is the thing that
[15:04] I could potentially get with I I I don't
[15:06] want to say least effort because I I put
[15:08] in a lot of effort but I didn't have to
[15:10] go too wide right I put Zone in into I
[15:13] okay I new see programming pretty well I
[15:15] went into DET like details of systems
[15:17] programming colel level programming and
[15:19] whatnot and that's how I prepared for
[15:22] Bloomberg and I got that switching to
[15:24] Amazon was completely FL on that so you
[15:27] knew they will be asking or what they
[15:30] were looking
[15:32] for yes so Bloomberg used to come to
[15:35] bingan University or on gabas interviews
[15:37] almost every single year so I knew some
[15:39] people who had done internship over
[15:41] there who had received full-time offers
[15:43] and also they used to hold info sessions
[15:45] so they themselves used to say that okay
[15:47] this is what we work on this is our
[15:48] texti this is expertise that we require
[15:51] so obviously interview questions were
[15:53] not known but the area was known that
[15:55] okay cc++ related questions and more on
[15:58] systems programming more focus on
[16:00] programming is one they looking for so
[16:01] that's what I okay did my target
[16:03] targeted preparation on so even though
[16:05] you're saying out of the laziness but
[16:07] you did your homework you did find out
[16:10] like you did your Outreach you did
[16:12] gather the information and then you
[16:14] thoroughly worked on that whatever they
[16:17] need right yes I so yeah so that's why I
[16:20] I I kind of chuckled when I say laziness
[16:22] so I put in a lot of effort right
[16:24] because I also audited a course called
[16:25] systems programming like by that time I
[16:27] think I had already registered for other
[16:29] courses so I I couldn't register for
[16:31] that course uh but I audited that
[16:33] meaning that I attended the kind of not
[16:36] lectures but the topics that they
[16:37] covered I studied them offline and I did
[16:39] all the assignments myself I didn't get
[16:41] them graded whether it works or not so I
[16:43] I did that kind of preparation as well
[16:45] so whatever I could for like that was
[16:48] required from Bloomberg I did so
[16:50] definitely didn't take any shortcuts
[16:52] over there but I didn't go wide
[16:53] basically I was like zoned in okay this
[16:55] is what I want to try and that's it and
[16:57] how many months we talking for this
[16:59] preparation or week this was like 22
[17:01] years ago so not 20 years ago so I don't
[17:03] exactly remember but so that course was
[17:05] like a semester long so obviously my
[17:08] preparation was continuous it was on and
[17:10] off I I don't think I gave 10 hours
[17:13] every day single every single day for a
[17:15] semester or anything like that a few
[17:17] hours here a few hours there and as the
[17:19] course was the whole semester probably a
[17:21] semester long but the number of hours I
[17:23] put in varied a lot perfect I I just
[17:25] wanted to dig deeper into this to give
[17:27] an idea from the stage and we will talk
[17:30] more if time permit that what was your
[17:32] situation at that time to is spending
[17:35] like six months targeting something and
[17:38] intentionally working on and off and
[17:40] many hours for 6 month and then going
[17:44] for that interview right and then you
[17:46] getting selected that so it it happens
[17:49] all go ahead go ahead there so there is
[17:52] a twist out there so if the time permits
[17:55] I'd like to elaborate on that too even
[17:57] after this long preparation I failed my
[18:00] interview for the first time it was
[18:03] devastating right or going back to your
[18:05] earlier question on on why this thing it
[18:07] because for me it was almost like if not
[18:09] this I don't know what else right so I
[18:11] almost like I didn't had not applied
[18:13] anywhere and I was an international
[18:14] student here so I had to get a job so
[18:16] that kind of drove me towards that but
[18:18] even after this preparation I failed in
[18:20] my first attempt what helped me and the
[18:22] reason I'm bringing it up is because I
[18:23] think it's very important for people to
[18:25] understand the value of networking right
[18:27] and what do you mean by value driven
[18:29] networking people look at networking as
[18:31] only connections outside but over here
[18:33] so I had registered for a course called
[18:36] distributed systems and I had a project
[18:38] partner over there and so again semester
[18:41] long we both worked on projects together
[18:43] I was a very sincere student I I didn't
[18:45] say that oh my partners will take care
[18:47] of it I'm only there for name sake right
[18:49] I actually contributed a lot so he knew
[18:51] that I was a good developer I was a
[18:52] sincere student and he had got select
[18:55] gotten selected to Bloomberg a year
[18:57] before me so because he knew that I am a
[19:00] good student and I actually deserve
[19:02] another chance he knew the hiring
[19:04] manager so he requested hiring manager
[19:06] to consider my application again in six
[19:08] months otherwise my next chance could
[19:10] have been only after a year and who
[19:11] knows that probably could have been too
[19:13] late by but because of that because I
[19:15] had good relationship with him not just
[19:17] in terms of being friends but also
[19:19] showing that I was a good programmer I
[19:21] was a good uh person to be on a team he
[19:25] could vouch for me and I got my second
[19:27] chance and that's when I cleared the
[19:29] interviews so and that time I had to
[19:30] give five or six interviews which was
[19:32] pretty rigorous in my opinion but I made
[19:34] it at that time and this is one of the
[19:35] ways that you could add value right just
[19:37] by being a good student by doing the
[19:39] work that you're supposed to do by going
[19:40] about and Beyond I also remember
[19:41] spending like two nights in one of the
[19:43] labs for one of the final projects and
[19:45] it does count right all of these things
[19:47] will help you in one way or the other
[19:49] later sometime later down the line This
[19:51] is the recipy of how to get into Tech
[19:54] number one you're doing Masters you're
[19:57] doing lot of of other things but you
[19:59] targeted one company and then you
[20:01] started researching about it then you
[20:04] you identify all the gaps or Preparation
[20:08] that is needed you worked on it and then
[20:11] you when you was grabbing the
[20:14] information when you was finding all the
[20:17] information you made the connection when
[20:19] you were preparing you made the
[20:20] connection and then when it did not work
[20:24] out you reach out to the contexts that
[20:27] you have made and then you even though
[20:30] it was 6 months later you prepared and
[20:33] you gave that interview and you got
[20:35] selected right this is a journey of
[20:38] almost a year of thinking attempting and
[20:43] consistency was this it was not a sudden
[20:47] thing that has happened right so thank
[20:49] you for sharing this is what people need
[20:51] right when they switch between different
[20:54] technology different courses and
[20:56] different targets and but a systematic
[21:00] approach like this will work out and on
[21:03] top of that I believe that the
[21:06] desperation that you had of that
[21:10] ESS of if not this then I don't have too
[21:15] many options right the desperation work
[21:17] for me as well and I will quickly share
[21:20] that story VJ that when I was trying
[21:24] when I got into
[21:26] Tech One thing that I think was
[21:31] significant for me is that I did not
[21:33] have a future without getting selected
[21:36] in that that campus
[21:38] interview if I had an option my only
[21:41] option was to go back to that marketing
[21:43] job that I hated so that desperation
[21:45] worked for me I think that desperation
[21:47] worked for you as well AB wow okay all
[21:50] right thank you so when I interrupted
[21:52] you you started talking about Amazon so
[21:55] let's go back to that so you started
[21:57] working in Bloomberg as in your first
[22:00] job and then what happened and then how
[22:03] did you set your goal for Amazon yes I
[22:06] was not intentional as I was talking
[22:08] earlier right like people should be
[22:09] intentional I was just happy that after
[22:11] so this much station I got into
[22:12] Bloomberg and that's it right so I just
[22:14] used to do my job and not think too much
[22:17] about where do I want to be a few years
[22:19] down the line and then as I started
[22:21] seeing people growing in that like a lot
[22:23] of my batchmates who joined with me had
[22:26] already become like team leads which is
[22:28] an equivalent of entry-level managers at
[22:30] that time I started asking what do I
[22:32] want do I just want to be here or do I
[22:34] want to do something different and this
[22:35] was one of the ways to measure your
[22:37] growth Bloomberg does not have levels as
[22:40] you will see in Google or Amazon like IC
[22:42] L3 L4 L5 kind of thing they have
[22:44] developed software developer and Senior
[22:46] software developer and that's about it
[22:47] right so this was one of the ways of
[22:49] measuring your growth that you're
[22:50] actually growing in your career other
[22:52] ways also but this was one of the ways
[22:55] and I was also enjoying like working
[22:57] with people and helping other Junior
[22:59] developers right like I specifically had
[23:01] two interns to mentor and they both
[23:04] received full-time offers so that was
[23:06] like I felt really nice after doing that
[23:07] that I actually helped them get a job of
[23:09] course it was most of their work but I
[23:11] also I hope I played a role in guiding
[23:14] them in in in getting that right and
[23:15] that was very satisfactory and just that
[23:17] and working with stakeholders I I like
[23:19] those kind of aspects which was kind of
[23:22] hinting at okay I think you can do the
[23:24] management job as well and I was not the
[23:27] best developer right like it's not that
[23:28] oh I I I could solve any problem or or
[23:31] anything like that I I was good I was I
[23:33] don't want to take that away from me but
[23:34] I wasn't like one of the best developers
[23:36] on planet or even in the company but
[23:38] going back to my earlier point like I
[23:40] knew what my strengths were right and
[23:41] working with people was one of it which
[23:43] was I think or not was even is a
[23:46] requirement to be a good manager right
[23:48] because you have to manage down you have
[23:50] to manage sideways you have to manage up
[23:51] for that you have to be good with people
[23:54] nice is different good is different
[23:56] right so you have to understand the
[23:57] difference and and have appropriate
[23:58] strategies for for different situations
[24:00] so that's when I realized that okay this
[24:03] is probably something worth trying and
[24:05] then I made intentional efforts in that
[24:07] direction and got to be a manager in in
[24:09] Bloomberg going to Amazon was not at all
[24:13] free plan it it just happened and again
[24:16] I would like to highlight like
[24:17] networking played a huge role over there
[24:18] as well so by that time like I had
[24:21] almost completed 10 years at Bloomberg
[24:23] and one of the colleagues that I used to
[24:25] work with had transferred to Amazon and
[24:27] he reached out to me asking whether I'm
[24:29] interested in joining Amazon and at that
[24:32] time actually my responsibility was
[24:34] growing within Bloomberg like I could
[24:36] have gotten managers to manage as well
[24:38] but that he said that when was the last
[24:40] time you interviewed outside and what
[24:42] else do you know outside with the
[24:43] Bloomberg thing and and at 10 year mark
[24:46] like you feel that okay like if not now
[24:48] then when as you spend more and more
[24:49] time in one company it becomes difficult
[24:51] to have more different perspectives from
[24:53] outside so I thought that okay might as
[24:56] well just try like he said what's the
[24:57] harm in just giving the interview and
[24:59] see what works so over there I did not
[25:01] have to prepare a lot or other because
[25:03] it was all of a sudden right I didn't
[25:05] spend months of preparation I did
[25:07] prepare I Tred to understand what the
[25:08] Amazon leadership principles were what
[25:10] kind of questions may come up especially
[25:12] on the behavioral side they did not have
[25:14] coding round so I didn't have to prepare
[25:16] for coding but system design was there
[25:17] so I did brush up a little bit on that
[25:20] and it worked out and because it worked
[25:23] out so suddenly and I don't know whether
[25:25] I should say easy or not but easier
[25:27] compared to so many other folks who like
[25:29] do months of preparation and then end up
[25:30] getting that's when I felt that maybe I
[25:33] should maybe this is meant to be right
[25:35] if it is happening this and if it gives
[25:37] me an opportunity to explore something
[25:39] different that I have not before
[25:40] compensation wise at that time it wasn't
[25:42] more than what I was making at Bloomberg
[25:44] right but the domain was different
[25:46] Bloomberg was B2B this was Toc the
[25:48] technology was different it was all on
[25:50] Amazon AWS Cloud related thing which was
[25:52] not there at least in the team that I
[25:54] was working on at Bloomberg and Amazon
[25:56] was a good name right so I did not look
[25:58] only at the money I thought okay if I'm
[26:00] getting all these other things without
[26:02] taking a pay cut like why not so that's
[26:04] how I ended up transitioning into Amazon
[26:06] and it was a subsidary of Amazon it
[26:08] called shopo but it still like the brand
[26:10] was different but internally everything
[26:12] was Amazon including technology
[26:14] processes stocks and like performance
[26:16] evaluation all those things so it was a
[26:18] little less like predetermined or
[26:20] premeditated but again like networking
[26:22] played a huge role if I did not have
[26:24] good impression on that person he
[26:25] probably wouldn't have reached out to me
[26:27] asking whether I want to give it a shot
[26:29] so how what was the duration between the
[26:31] point that he suggested you applied and
[26:33] you got a job was it are we talking like
[26:36] a month two month or six months probably
[26:38] two months I don't think it was as as
[26:39] long as six months yeah probably two
[26:41] months yeah this was back in 2015 all
[26:44] right from there you went to Google yeah
[26:48] I spent about six and a half years in
[26:49] Amazon so I spent out of those six and a
[26:51] half five and a half years were we in
[26:53] shopo and then I transition internally
[26:56] to Amazon live and and then to Google
[26:58] getting to Google was very focused
[27:01] effort again and similar to my Bloomberg
[27:03] story I prepared for six months and I
[27:07] failed again in my first attempt so it
[27:09] was that was a huge shock it was also
[27:12] covid time yeah overall it was very
[27:14] difficult but I didn't give up right I
[27:16] kept those things in mind on what what
[27:19] could have gone wrong where I need to
[27:21] improve and I tried again after a year
[27:23] and a half and at that time so I didn't
[27:26] succeed in my first attempt I had
[27:27] applied for three companies and I got
[27:29] rejected in all of them and but this
[27:32] next time I in December I had given a
[27:34] few interviews earlier also more of the
[27:37] practice one part but like late November
[27:39] and December i g six interviews and I
[27:41] received five hours so that was like a
[27:44] huge turnaround and huge moral boosting
[27:46] thing as well so now out of that Google
[27:48] was again it wasn't the the highest
[27:50] paying offer but I considered many other
[27:52] aspects and decided to join Google and
[27:54] definitely not regretting a bit so what
[27:56] do you think the difference was in
[27:58] getting this offer versus before you
[28:01] know one thing that worked for me that
[28:03] after three interviews my voice is like
[28:06] ruent compared to my first interview so
[28:09] that has worked for me give more
[28:10] interviews and you get more practice and
[28:13] then you have the command on what you're
[28:15] delivering yeah especially for manager
[28:17] interviews I think Behavior interviews
[28:19] play a huge role right so having good
[28:22] data points good meaning not just good
[28:24] projects but level appropriate thing
[28:26] like what doing more investigation or
[28:28] research about what are they expecting
[28:30] for that level and what points to
[28:32] highlight right so what points to
[28:35] highlight how you highlight storytelling
[28:37] those kind of things are are really
[28:38] important and I think even in system
[28:42] design I think I did well but I practice
[28:44] more I think I had struggled with one of
[28:46] the rounds in my first attempt but I
[28:48] tried to cover those gaps as well so
[28:50] overall like basically understanding
[28:53] where you need to improve on and Al
[28:55] fortunately the recruiters gave me some
[28:57] feedback also later and that was about
[28:59] like the data points were good but they
[29:01] were not level appropriate like it was
[29:02] more to your I think very first point
[29:04] about tactical right I was whatever
[29:06] examples I were giving they're more from
[29:07] the tacnical Tactical perspective not So
[29:10] Much from the Strategic angle so I had
[29:12] covered tactical and people well but
[29:13] they were not getting the data points
[29:16] they were looking for from the Strategic
[29:17] angle so I made sure that I I worked on
[29:20] those and I included those stories as
[29:22] well and don't answer if there is some
[29:27] sensitivity around it but I'm curious
[29:30] why suddenly you was into the market
[29:33] spent six years Amazon and then suddenly
[29:35] you giving so many interviews so what
[29:37] was going on in your head at that point
[29:40] I don't have a good answer I don't mind
[29:41] disclosing that also but it was curely
[29:43] out of foro I saw many of my friends
[29:46] again joining Fang and it was a little
[29:48] bit of and already one of the f I was I
[29:52] yes I was but as I said before like
[29:54] getting to this point like especially
[29:56] getting into Amazon like I didn't really
[29:59] know whether I had spent a lot of effort
[30:01] and actually gotten that it happened
[30:03] right so that was I was questioning my
[30:04] own this thing am I capable of getting
[30:06] into something and also this I remember
[30:09] like long time back like I did not even
[30:12] think that I could ever get it to Google
[30:14] right and we can discuss that later but
[30:17] there there were some other things on
[30:19] the side like in my personal life that
[30:21] contributed to challenging these
[30:22] limiting beliefs right so that was that
[30:24] also contributed to say that okay like
[30:26] why did you think you cannot get it
[30:28] right try it like without trying
[30:29] obviously you're not going to get so why
[30:31] not why not just try that in addition to
[30:33] seeing other friends getting into Google
[30:34] and meta hearing about their packages
[30:37] all of them contributed to saying okay
[30:39] let's give it a shot okay thank you for
[30:41] sharing so before we change direction I
[30:45] wanted to ask as we we started from your
[30:48] college time to O to this
[30:50] point where VJ is going in next two to
[30:54] five years is there I guess my motto
[30:58] behind asking this question how VJ set
[31:01] his goal long-term goals and short-term
[31:05] execution yeah so for next two to five
[31:07] years no plans of leaving the job unless
[31:09] of course they let me go that's a
[31:11] different story but intentionally I I
[31:12] don't I'm not looking forward to leaving
[31:14] the job I definitely enjoy what what I
[31:16] do yes I it's I I'm very fortunate and I
[31:21] I acknowledge the privilege and luck
[31:22] that I had as you said in the beginning
[31:24] like for so many people it's a dream
[31:25] company people try so hard and it'll be
[31:28] foolish of me to say that okay now I
[31:30] don't care about it anymore so that's
[31:32] going to stay I'm going to try a little
[31:34] harder on the social media side I'm
[31:36] still struggling in that finding that
[31:39] Clarity in my head right like how do I
[31:41] go about it in terms of I one thing I
[31:44] know I what I don't want is like getting
[31:46] into controversies or doing click Bady
[31:48] stuff or misguiding people I hate that I
[31:50] don't want to grow like that but then do
[31:52] I continue on Twitter do I start my
[31:55] YouTube or do I start
[31:57] I already post on LinkedIn but do I do
[31:59] that more regularly now I'm everywhere
[32:01] without having a particular focus and a
[32:03] strategy so I want to improve on that if
[32:07] possible again it's thankfully my bread
[32:09] and butter is not dependent on that so
[32:11] it's not that I have to do that in what
[32:13] next six months or a year I I'll keep
[32:15] providing value and I'll I'll keep
[32:17] trying but yeah at some point I hope
[32:19] that I find a direction and I execute on
[32:21] that better than what I'm doing right
[32:22] now I think it's similar for me as well
[32:25] that um along love my time job but I
[32:28] started something on my side including a
[32:32] b I've run a web agency where three
[32:34] developer working for me in India off
[32:37] sure and then getting more and more
[32:39] serious about writing and coaching and
[32:41] everything for me the biggest thing is
[32:44] having the clarity for
[32:46] myself like why I'm doing this right and
[32:49] will I enjoy doing whatever I'm creating
[32:52] for next 5 10 15 years right for me this
[32:56] is I just don't want to follow XYZ
[32:59] person and start doing things that they
[33:02] are doing I want to figure out out of
[33:06] 100 thing that I can help somebody what
[33:09] is that one thing that actually will
[33:11] enjoy doing for many years and then what
[33:13] you just said before we do incredible
[33:17] job for our employers where we have this
[33:20] a long-term vision for that company or
[33:23] for our team or for the project or the
[33:25] product and then execution excellent
[33:27] execution but when it comes to our own
[33:30] thing we are not that thorough and but
[33:33] all we sometime I feel like we just need
[33:37] to apply what we do for our employee to
[33:39] our own things and things will be
[33:41] different yeah that's definitely true
[33:44] but and I'm glad that you have that
[33:45] Clarity or you have that framework that
[33:47] that will help you understand and take
[33:49] next steps
[33:50] accordingly it's almost more people will
[33:54] spend time in finding how the this too
[33:57] list app work versus trying to find why
[34:02] do I have to manage my 24 hours right
[34:06] and you would spend all your time to
[34:08] compare five different to-do app and
[34:11] then by the time you pick one you forget
[34:13] why you started like why do what was the
[34:15] problem that you was trying to solve and
[34:17] that's exactly what happened with many
[34:20] of the people who are trying to be
[34:21] active in social media that they go
[34:24] after reach tweet reach tweet and then
[34:30] the how to type tweet and then by the
[34:32] time they follow five people they forget
[34:34] what actually I'm trying to do here so
[34:37] that Clarity is I think most important
[34:39] cool all right so let's shift gear I
[34:42] wanted to talk are you a workolic or a
[34:45] balanced person or what you are and how
[34:48] do you balance your work professional
[34:52] growth I feel like those are two
[34:54] different things right work is where you
[34:56] are loyal to your employer and then
[34:58] professional growth where you loyal to
[34:59] yourself and then your family and
[35:02] personal life and whatnot yeah I I don't
[35:05] know what kind of person I am because as
[35:07] I said like at many times I would feel
[35:09] that I'm super lazy I don't want to do
[35:10] anything I just want to continue what
[35:12] I'm doing not put in extra efforts but
[35:14] then I find something then I feel that
[35:16] no I want to go after that and I I put
[35:18] in a lot of effort in doing that so it's
[35:21] I think if you plot it as a graph is all
[35:23] over the place there will be times when
[35:24] I'm not doing anything there time I'm
[35:26] I'm doing something
[35:27] like doing a lot and then again probably
[35:29] some dull period then I go after
[35:31] something else I don't know whether I
[35:33] have a clear and concrete answer but
[35:35] I'll just tell you about like my thought
[35:36] process or how I've approached things so
[35:38] far and so yeah I think getting promoted
[35:42] is not something that I'm super
[35:44] interested in at this moment I was at
[35:46] some point like when I joined Amazon I
[35:48] joined as an L5 manager and that at that
[35:51] time I felt like no I need to be at
[35:53] least L six so then I again I kept that
[35:55] as a goal and I basically didn't do
[35:57] anything else and say okay to achieve
[35:59] that what do I need to do like what all
[36:01] things I need to achieve in the like do
[36:02] I need to do upscale myself with
[36:05] something else or just at work how do I
[36:07] build relationships how do I get the
[36:08] data points that I needed and then
[36:10] basically went all in over there so at
[36:13] that time I probably wasn't doing lot
[36:15] many other things I did AWS
[36:17] certification I don't know whether that
[36:19] was actually needed or not but I thought
[36:20] that that will help me so this is was
[36:22] part of upscaling myself in order to
[36:24] achieve that one particular goal right
[36:26] now at work I don't have that goal that
[36:28] I need to get to at7 I'm not saying that
[36:30] oh I don't want that at all but I don't
[36:33] think I need to do an intentional effort
[36:36] in get getting the next level at work
[36:37] right now I'm probably better off doing
[36:40] the work in a good way helping my team
[36:42] and then probably Focus something on my
[36:44] personal side which is the social media
[36:46] things that we're talking about in terms
[36:48] of balancing time like I try to be
[36:50] realistic with goals not try too many
[36:52] things at the same time if you are
[36:54] looking at one thing then okay pick that
[36:55] one thing go after that and Achieve that
[36:58] and then move on to something else like
[37:00] for example last April or something like
[37:04] another personal goal which is also
[37:05] timec consuming was running my first
[37:07] full Marathon right so if I was focusing
[37:10] on that obviously I couldn't do anything
[37:12] else or I I would be doing Injustice to
[37:14] either my family or whatever I was
[37:16] trying to do too many things at the same
[37:18] time so I I picked that and I didn't do
[37:20] anything else so at that time I wasn't
[37:21] too much into social media also like
[37:23] just Twitter a little bit here and there
[37:25] but of course like family is really
[37:26] important right like at least to me it
[37:28] is unfair to say that okay let my wife
[37:30] take care of everything and I'll only
[37:32] focus on this so like sharing
[37:33] responsibilities spending time with kids
[37:36] as you probably know kids grow up so
[37:37] fast right and if I don't spend some
[37:39] time with them right now I don't want to
[37:40] regret that later so I I don't think I
[37:43] spend too much time with them or even
[37:45] like enough time with them but I do try
[37:47] to make sure that I spend at least some
[37:48] time with them I'm not like unavailable
[37:51] for the kind of thing I think time
[37:52] boxing helps like that's why if you see
[37:55] like my spaces or whatever I usually am
[37:57] more active like Saturday morning Sunday
[37:59] morning when everybody else is sleeping
[38:00] so I'm not mixing my responsibilities
[38:03] and yeah I think being more realistic
[38:05] about that like not trying too many
[38:06] things at the same time and thinking
[38:08] through okay how this kind of alliance
[38:10] with my long-term goal and prioritizing
[38:12] those things is what has helped me so
[38:15] far great answer thanks I will share one
[38:18] thing about kids growing to far my son
[38:21] is in college and he was here yesterday
[38:24] for the worship that we was we did
[38:27] yesterday so I sleep early but yesterday
[38:31] was like 11:30 and I said all right
[38:33] let's watch in episode together he just
[38:36] recommended by me one of the Star Trek
[38:39] and man he said you're G to fall asleep
[38:42] immediately and let's do it and we
[38:44] started watching like I was my eyes was
[38:47] closed like in next 10 minutes and I
[38:49] still tried just to be with him he's
[38:52] very busy with college and everything
[38:54] but I remember the time when he want
[38:56] wanted my time and I was busy fixing
[38:59] things for office and I wish if I can go
[39:03] back and change that but fortunately I
[39:05] use that learning my daughter is 13y old
[39:09] and I if she need anything I just jump
[39:13] on it you have all my time since the
[39:15] time she was
[39:17] born even before and as an example she
[39:21] was asking can you drop me here to
[39:24] Monday and then pick me again so drop
[39:27] her at a school at 700 and then pick her
[39:30] again at 9: to drop so she will go to
[39:33] elementary school some for some
[39:35] volunteer work and then she want me to
[39:39] pick her from elementary and drop at
[39:41] middle so by the time I will come back I
[39:44] think it will be 10 that's sure I will
[39:46] move around my things just to be able to
[39:48] support her and whatever she want to do
[39:52] yeah that's a great point and anybody
[39:55] whoever is work colag like me I was at
[39:58] some point it's learn from us it will
[40:01] grow really fast and then when they get
[40:05] busier that's when you will realize that
[40:09] now they don't have time for you and you
[40:11] want to spend more time with them yeah
[40:14] absolutely I think there was some quote
[40:15] right I'm not phrasing it correctly but
[40:17] something on the lines of the only
[40:19] people who will remember that you worked
[40:20] hard to have that meeting at 8:00 will
[40:23] be your kids nobody in your office or or
[40:25] anybody else
[40:26] right right it's I think yeah priorities
[40:30] you need to be clear about your
[40:32] priorities and along the similar line
[40:36] one of my one of my colleague helped me
[40:39] get over this fact that your project you
[40:41] won't even remember a project or a
[40:45] meeting after a year or two and then you
[40:47] will get into the next thing or next
[40:49] thing but when that is happening you
[40:52] feel like everything is around that
[40:54] awesome I want to take few moments
[40:58] talking about work life balance and the
[41:01] different activities that you probably
[41:03] do to take short breaks during the day
[41:07] or a week or some longer break or
[41:11] vacation to make a balance to
[41:14] re-energize yourself and I've seen many
[41:16] people posting that they have no work
[41:20] life balance or the work is too much so
[41:23] what you do to balance this out out and
[41:26] reenergize yourself yeah I think one of
[41:29] the habits that I'm proud of is regular
[41:32] exercise right and what I mean by that
[41:34] is I make sure that I spend at least 30
[41:37] minutes every day but they don't have to
[41:39] be continuous right and then that goes
[41:40] back to being realistic like sometimes
[41:42] I'm just not in the mood to spend 30
[41:44] minutes in the gym or even on the
[41:45] treadmill so in that case like just do
[41:46] it for 10 minutes right like you really
[41:49] I will feel super guilty if I tell
[41:51] myself that I don't have 10 minutes for
[41:52] exercise right and or there is an app
[41:54] like 7 Minute Workout right really I you
[41:56] telling me you don't have seven seven
[41:57] minutes in your day right so even doing
[42:00] this in three or four segments right
[42:02] that still makes me happy that okay at
[42:03] least I did 30 minutes and it energizes
[42:05] you a lot and anybody who hasn't tried
[42:08] that like I would definitely recommend
[42:10] it's not that you need to do exercise
[42:11] meaning you have to go to the gym hours
[42:13] and lift super heavy weights and be like
[42:15] a bodybuilder kind of thing right but
[42:17] even moderate exercise but consist doing
[42:19] it consistently can energize you a lot
[42:21] and it'll give you more time than
[42:23] probably what you're spending in on the
[42:25] exercise so that is one very critical
[42:28] element of my life I also try to do
[42:30] meditation I am a little less consistent
[42:33] on the meditation front I probably do it
[42:35] like four or five days a week also for
[42:37] 20 minutes not more than that but
[42:39] whenever I do I I feel like it's it was
[42:42] the time worth spent right it is really
[42:44] helpful for me sometimes I do it even in
[42:46] office and I'm not ashamed of saying
[42:48] that because I don't think it is I'm
[42:49] stealing company's time if it helps me
[42:51] become more productive right because
[42:52] especially in the afternoon if 2:30 or
[42:55] something if you feel super slump rather
[42:56] than wasting 3 hours later if you take
[42:58] quick 20 minutes break and then
[43:00] re-energize yourself then that is
[43:02] totally worth it in my opinion right so
[43:04] I think that is these two things help me
[43:06] manage my energy level in terms of work
[43:09] life balance I do feel exhausted to be
[43:11] honest right I don't think I I manage it
[43:13] really well because work at home is also
[43:17] not an easy task especially for us who
[43:20] live in the US who do everything on your
[43:22] groceries and laundries and dishes and
[43:24] whatnot people make fun of it but it
[43:26] takes time and energy but that at least
[43:28] helps me disconnect and when you're
[43:30] doing that I don't think about work and
[43:31] when I'm doing work I don't think about
[43:33] that so even if it becomes exhausting at
[43:35] least there are like two different
[43:36] exhausting activities so it helps me
[43:39] automatically have that separation as
[43:40] such in terms of uh break yeah I don't
[43:44] also try to make every single minute
[43:46] productive in the day because I tried
[43:47] that once or twice and I I feel
[43:50] miserably at that I need me time so I
[43:52] wake up early for that I sleep early my
[43:55] my schedule is like when my son is not
[43:57] in his swimming class I usually sleep by
[43:59] 9ine right and then wake up at 5: so
[44:01] that and then I take my own sweet time
[44:02] in doing things like preparing whatever
[44:04] breakfast and other things in the
[44:06] morning and that feels like a break then
[44:08] right because then you're not rushing if
[44:10] if you're trying to be super productive
[44:11] and trying to count every single minute
[44:13] that adds pressure to me and I I totally
[44:15] acknowledge that this varies from person
[44:17] to person so I'm not saying that this is
[44:18] the right thing this is what works for
[44:19] me and this is how I'm I look at my
[44:22] schedule and I try to make time like by
[44:24] either waking up early or finding some
[44:26] time here and there I don't watch too
[44:28] many movies or series like once in a
[44:29] while I I will do that but that doesn't
[44:31] take too much of my time so I could
[44:33] spend that time on on something else so
[44:35] I think I wish I could say that I have
[44:37] good diet also but I don't like to be
[44:40] honest like I think eating is my weak
[44:42] point but I think I've heard people
[44:43] saying that if you eat right like that
[44:45] gives you more energy I think I eat
[44:47] right but I also eat wrong so it's it's
[44:49] like a mix mix on both but this is what
[44:51] I try and as a family we go try to go on
[44:53] vacation like long vacations at least
[44:55] twice a year so that's a good break from
[44:57] everything else I try to go to my
[45:00] parents are India so I go back to India
[45:01] every other year so again that leaves me
[45:04] some time to go somewhere else with my
[45:05] family over here yeah I don't know
[45:08] whether this is the ideal breakdown or
[45:10] ideal situation or not but that's what
[45:11] I've been trying and there are
[45:12] definitely areas of improvement but I
[45:14] think so far I've been managing it okay
[45:16] I think this is one of the most
[45:17] practical approach that you you sharing
[45:19] that during the day you're taking some
[45:21] breaks during the week you're taking
[45:23] some break you're taking proper sleep
[45:26] and then are you taking some vacation
[45:28] what people are not intentional about
[45:32] doing things right they could take some
[45:35] break just like how you said it taking
[45:37] that 20 minute break make the three hour
[45:42] next 3 hours more effective but if
[45:45] you're not intentional if you're not
[45:47] kind of thinking ahead you would keep
[45:49] working and you may not find a solution
[45:51] and you spend a 5 hour which you could
[45:54] have done sooner if you have taken a
[45:57] break or something right so I would say
[45:59] that's the Practical approach that
[46:01] people probably want to look at versus
[46:04] uh trying to find an ideal ideal work
[46:07] life balance I don't
[46:09] believe that at least the software
[46:12] industry or it Industries work for that
[46:14] traditional 9 to5 Norm
[46:17] Norms where you were going to a factory
[46:21] and there was some time limit on how
[46:23] much you can work and when you leave you
[46:26] go right and then there are shift around
[46:28] so there was certain limitation that
[46:30] doesn't exist in software you can work
[46:35] anytime for your work and you can also
[46:38] do your family things or your personal
[46:40] things right so I I believe in more work
[46:43] life mesh versus work life balance like
[46:47] 9 to5 type thing yeah that's a great
[46:49] point like I also think and also tell
[46:51] people to look at it more from the work
[46:52] life Harmony perspective not balance me
[46:54] right it doesn't have to be you only
[46:56] spend eight hours here and then eight
[46:57] hours there kind of thing there will be
[46:59] times where you will have to spend a lot
[47:00] more time at work right let's say if
[47:02] you're aiming for a promotion that's due
[47:04] in six months you should spend
[47:06] disproportionate about of time at work
[47:07] and probably not spend too much time on
[47:10] your own extracurricular and hobbies or
[47:12] activities right but then there will be
[47:13] time when you achieve that and then
[47:15] there is some kind of downtime and you
[47:16] spend more on your own thing and of
[47:19] course like everybody situation probably
[47:20] different like to your earlier Point
[47:22] like probably not worth missing kids
[47:24] birthdays if you're
[47:26] going for promotion but again like you
[47:28] get the point right it's basically it's
[47:30] not that everything has to be balanced
[47:31] all the time sometimes there's sometimes
[47:33] that depending on the situation I think
[47:35] is is more practical and achievable in
[47:37] my opinion yeah we are intellectual
[47:39] worker knowledge worker and we can put
[47:43] some thoughts around different things so
[47:45] toward the end of the segment end of
[47:48] this session I wanted to ask is there
[47:51] any question that I have not asked you
[47:53] but you want to answer I would like to
[47:55] touch on the challenging limiting belief
[47:58] part if if that's okay so I think and
[48:00] this is diagonal like oral what you want
[48:03] to call it it it started so I was never
[48:06] like an athletic person and I was like
[48:09] super average or even below average like
[48:11] I could barely do any pups and whatnot
[48:13] but in Bloomberg again like I think
[48:14] surrounding yourself with people with
[48:17] the right mindset is really important so
[48:19] at that time like a lot of folks uh were
[48:21] driven which made me feel that okay what
[48:24] do I want to do with my end of career
[48:26] and then be more interal but at the same
[48:28] time a lot of people were also into
[48:30] sports and whatnot and I know few
[48:32] friends where participating in New York
[48:34] City Triathlon and at that time I was
[48:37] like there is no way I could do
[48:38] Triathlon right like three hours of
[48:40] physical activity who's going to do that
[48:42] but if you have company and through the
[48:44] company there there was also training
[48:46] program like you had to raise money for
[48:47] that organization blood cancer related
[48:49] organization but they would in return
[48:50] they would provide you free training so
[48:53] I said okay worth trying right like why
[48:55] not I see my other friends doing it who
[48:57] also don't seem to be in great shape
[48:59] okay I can at least start and then I I
[49:01] did that and I finished that under three
[49:04] hours which was my Target and that was
[49:07] like a light bul moment where I felt
[49:09] that okay consistent effort can lead you
[49:11] to achieve these kind of goals you don't
[49:13] have to be naturally born amazing
[49:15] athlete to do this right again I didn't
[49:17] win it but I didn't want to win it
[49:19] either right like in in my first attempt
[49:21] I just wanted to finish it because that
[49:22] was a victory for me right and that kind
[49:25] of helped me
[49:26] go more in this direction of okay
[49:28] challenge what other thing that you
[49:29] think that you cannot do for example in
[49:31] the triathlon running was my weakest
[49:34] point and that in the Trion like 10K was
[49:36] the last running segment so I decided
[49:39] okay if that is my weakest Point like
[49:40] how do I go into that area so then I
[49:42] appeared for a half marathon like a few
[49:44] hours down the line not immediately but
[49:45] few hour down the line sorry again I
[49:47] failed in my first half marathon attempt
[49:49] also I actually fainted in the last
[49:52] smile and that's because I did not focus
[49:54] on hydration properly hydration and and
[49:57] nutrition and like running 13 miles is
[49:59] is not a joke like your body is not
[50:00] built for that right you need to provide
[50:02] it with frequent hydration and this
[50:04] thing but again I learned from that and
[50:06] I appeared for another half marathon
[50:08] just couple months down the line and I
[50:10] finished that in the time that I wanted
[50:11] to and then I was like okay what's next
[50:13] and then I grow into like finishing a
[50:16] marathon so it again it didn't happen
[50:18] immediately one after the other thing
[50:19] but that helped me after the half
[50:22] marathon like is also okay if I could do
[50:24] this I could probably also go and apply
[50:26] for Google right so having that growth
[50:29] mindset and trying that in one area of
[50:31] your life can also impact other areas of
[50:34] your life right and you should look at
[50:36] it like competition with yourself like
[50:38] it's not the end goal is not winning but
[50:40] challenging your belief and doing
[50:41] something that you have not done so far
[50:43] by stretching your limits even a little
[50:44] bit right that will give you confidence
[50:46] in that area and that will also apply to
[50:48] other areas in your life and even if it
[50:51] doesn't great I just give you
[50:52] satisfaction that you tried right like
[50:54] rather than just saying that okay not my
[50:55] cup of tea so I think that thing of like
[50:58] challeng having I and I don't think I
[51:00] have the perfect growth mindset I I
[51:02] don't think I can say that now I can go
[51:04] and apply to IIT again and get into IIT
[51:06] or anything like that but at least I
[51:08] made much a lot more progress than
[51:10] before in in that area so I think I
[51:12] would also like to encourage viewers to
[51:14] think about that there is a book called
[51:15] mindset by Carol Dr Carol D I think I
[51:18] think I would highly recommend that to
[51:20] challenge your own limiting beliefs and
[51:22] have your competition with own previous
[51:24] sell right not with some else and even
[51:26] if you see tiniest Improvement I think
[51:28] that's a big win this could be a niche
[51:30] VJ talking about growth mindset yeah or
[51:33] breaking your limiting belief and for
[51:35] developer is specific for developers
[51:38] thanks thanks for the suggestions do you
[51:40] have a question for me not specific to
[51:42] this topic but I would definitely love
[51:44] to have a chat about some other things
[51:45] like I saw you posted a video about your
[51:48] daughter participating like Robotics and
[51:49] what not it so I wanted to chat about my
[51:51] son is also 13 years old he's the older
[51:53] one I have a younger daughter and he is
[51:56] probably just like me he just like sits
[51:58] and things and redeems and whatnot I
[52:00] want to see like how do I ignite that
[52:02] Spar in him to do something constructive
[52:04] so we can talk about that some other
[52:05] time all right I typically asked for a
[52:08] message to the audience but I believe
[52:10] you you have you just covered a very
[52:12] strong message for them anything else
[52:15] that you want to tell them no go follow
[52:17] venod And subscribe to his podcast as
[52:19] well I think I'm I'm really happy that I
[52:21] connected with you and I get to learn a
[52:24] lot of things from you as well and keep
[52:25] adding M and thank you for having me
[52:27] here don't follow me if you're not
[52:29] following VJ because you will find very
[52:33] practical advice so you will see people
[52:37] in Twitter in LinkedIn they're talking
[52:40] about hundreds of advice that they have
[52:42] not tried but what I have seen in vj's
[52:46] comments and his post is things that he
[52:50] has tried himself the thing that work
[52:53] for him and in this interview you have
[52:55] seen how much he has achieved and did
[52:58] more than achieve the the type of
[53:00] mindset and type of work ethics that VJ
[53:03] has we will come back and I would love
[53:06] to have another session with you to
[53:08] cover the journey that you had from your
[53:11] Masters and then all the different
[53:14] things that you have done which which
[53:16] made you super Focus about getting into
[53:19] Tech and not putting that intensity
[53:22] behind sounds good all right thank you
[53:25] you and thank you everyone for watching
[53:28] we we'll come back again thanks and wish
[53:31] everybody all the best hope you achieve
[53:32] your
[53:43] dream