How Queen Arit Transformed Her Life by Breaking Into Tech at 38. An Inspiring Story! (Ep 35)

[0:00] our today's guest is Queen arith at
[0:03] early age she decided to go in the
[0:05] healthcare and from there their bunch of
[0:08] thing happens but today she is a
[0:12] got herself into a tech industry
[0:16] um but also helping other people with
[0:19] the same Journey that she has gone
[0:22] through I will use
[0:24] um a quick presentation to show her
[0:27] journey in high school she wanted to
[0:30] become a doctor so she started with
[0:33] Medical College but then third year
[0:36] around third year she realized that it
[0:40] may be too much so she started
[0:43] um public health study and then she she
[0:46] went through multiple jobs in public
[0:49] health
[0:50] um and
[0:52] then something happened she she was let
[0:55] go and that's where the the tech Journey
[0:59] Begins and uh I wanted to highlight
[1:02] there that these are the points in your
[1:06] life where you could do 10 other things
[1:10] right you could you could have gone into
[1:12] the similar type of job you could
[1:16] um maybe that that
[1:18] job was continued and you could have
[1:21] grown yourself into public health but
[1:23] all that happened for a reason that you
[1:26] started your own
[1:28] um
[1:29] web agency
[1:31] with the knowledge that you had
[1:34] um the previous knowledge that you had
[1:36] and then
[1:38] um again you had an option to continue
[1:41] to grow that agency but you started
[1:44] learning PHP you started boot camp you
[1:48] started uh
[1:50] we will come back to this that how you
[1:53] decided that this 6000 is in is is worth
[1:57] spending and then we had
[2:00] um
[2:01] interviews
[2:03] and and the first job at
[2:08] captera and then from there two years
[2:12] three years later you're doing a lot of
[2:15] things not only grown yourself into a a
[2:19] senior debit Advocate but also doing
[2:22] bunch of mentorship activities through
[2:24] your website your newsletter your
[2:26] WhatsApp group and you just start a
[2:28] four-year Circle as well and you are
[2:31] one-on-one mentoring session and then um
[2:35] last but not least you also have a
[2:37] community for women's so
[2:41] I I felt that I could not explain it
[2:44] without a picture so I wanted to create
[2:47] a big picture it's really good I'm like
[2:50] wow this is the uh
[2:52] the timeline of my life
[2:55] so um so
[2:59] before I ask you
[3:02] um more uh what I want to in this
[3:05] interview that there these are the point
[3:08] in your life where you was hustling I
[3:11] will bring this down so I can match it
[3:14] to the timeline of the event but uh this
[3:17] is the time when you was hustling the
[3:21] point where you let go from the job
[3:24] to the point you got this con
[3:27] um kept Terror position and most of the
[3:31] time what happened that after capture
[3:34] yes there was a struggle years there was
[3:37] similar type of
[3:38] but you had a direction at that point
[3:40] right it was I wouldn't say easy but
[3:44] having a Direction having a purpose uh
[3:47] clarify a lot yes this is the time where
[3:51] you had
[3:52] um you was Reinventing yourself right
[3:55] you and uh there was resilience around
[4:00] the sixth month of a study around this
[4:02] web agency around figuring out when you
[4:04] you couldn't find a job and you
[4:06] continues to I will be focusing a lot
[4:09] around this part that how you found
[4:13] yourself right fighting with other
[4:15] people fighting with all these other
[4:16] technology and learning is all possible
[4:20] but the biggest fight is within yes to
[4:24] tell yourself that it is okay and you
[4:27] you keep going so with that I will stop
[4:30] sharing with the thought process at that
[4:32] point to choose
[4:34] you go in the you start your own agency
[4:37] yes okay so
[4:40] um Let me Give a Little Bit of
[4:43] a bit of um
[4:44] I was an immigrant so I was um I was an
[4:49] international student that's how I came
[4:51] to the United States
[4:54] um and so you know being an
[4:56] international student work opportunities
[4:58] are not as plentiful
[5:01] um and there's a lot of restrictions
[5:03] even if you are able to work and so the
[5:06] job that I was let go from was actually
[5:09] my first full-time job in the United
[5:12] States and that came after I was uh
[5:16] naturalized through uh marriage to my
[5:19] partner I was able to get that status I
[5:22] was able to get resident status right so
[5:24] that was my first ever full-time job in
[5:29] the United States yes
[5:30] um at the same time actually I started
[5:33] that job a few days before my wedding
[5:36] and so so there was a lot going on in my
[5:40] life right I was starting this new life
[5:42] with my partner you know know eventually
[5:45] I got pregnant and so that job was
[5:49] happening alongside a lot of change in
[5:53] Readjustment in my life and so even
[5:57] though I enjoyed the job and I did well
[6:01] in the job but I it didn't feel like a
[6:05] career to be honest a lot of my
[6:08] emotional and mental energy was going
[6:11] toward my new family right this family
[6:15] that I had started I was with child
[6:17] going through that whole experience yes
[6:20] and so when I got let go from that job
[6:23] it was like a reorganization in the
[6:25] company with a merger and all of that
[6:27] and so when I got let go from that job
[6:32] it didn't feel like I mean it was
[6:35] painful to be fired but it didn't feel
[6:39] like I had lost anything really because
[6:42] I wasn't as emotionally invested in the
[6:45] role it was just a job yes it was a job
[6:48] it was paying bills and at the time my
[6:51] son was um a toddler at the time and so
[6:55] that's when I made the decision I felt
[6:58] like because it's honestly Vernon I was
[7:00] going to work to pay daycare because
[7:03] daycare is so expensive where I live and
[7:05] so when that job went away I decided I'm
[7:09] going to stay home with my son right I'm
[7:12] not going to look for another role just
[7:15] to take
[7:16] three quarters of the pay and give it to
[7:19] daycare right and so I made that
[7:22] decision yes and so making that
[7:24] transition now to where I ended up as a
[7:28] developer at captera I mean I know we're
[7:30] gonna get into that but a big part of it
[7:33] was at that time my my decision to be
[7:38] there with my son to be home you know
[7:41] culturally I'm from Nigeria culturally
[7:44] there's a lot of emphasis placed you
[7:46] know for women you know like maintaining
[7:49] the home domestic responsibility and so
[7:53] that was a big part of my value system
[7:57] at that time right I wasn't necessarily
[8:01] thinking about
[8:03] um like a high-powered career let me put
[8:06] it that way yes so did you have any
[8:08] other option or how how did you choose
[8:10] that web will be the one okay so
[8:14] um so during the time that I was home I
[8:17] always say in my family I get this from
[8:20] my mother okay my family the matriarchs
[8:22] in my family are they don't know how to
[8:24] be idle okay so we always have something
[8:27] going on and so even though I was home I
[8:30] just couldn't sit at home I needed to be
[8:32] about something so I actually did a
[8:34] number of things you know I was a makeup
[8:36] artist
[8:38] um for a number of years yes I also um
[8:41] had a catering company I catered West
[8:43] African cuisine yes
[8:45] um and I had always my my
[8:48] um my relationship with WordPress
[8:50] actually started in college at that time
[8:53] it was just a blogging platform now it's
[8:55] a fully functional content management
[8:57] system right and so I had a few like I
[9:01] had a website for my makeup I had a
[9:04] website for my catering and so the
[9:06] people who patronized me or my community
[9:09] they would see these websites and say oh
[9:11] who did that for you and I would say I
[9:14] did it I told you like really you know
[9:16] and so I started it started with friends
[9:19] my girlfriends I started getting
[9:21] requests or could you do something
[9:23] similar for me oh I want to start a blog
[9:26] or I want a Business website and so it
[9:30] started out just being in my community
[9:32] but then that Community gets to talking
[9:34] and so I started getting requests from
[9:37] quote unquote strangers right
[9:41] um who had heard of my reputation
[9:42] building these very simple WordPress
[9:45] based websites yeah and they wanted
[9:48] something for their needs and so I
[9:51] actually did it in a very informal way
[9:53] for about a year or so before I then
[9:56] said hey because when I started getting
[9:59] like people who didn't know me
[10:01] personally but they wanted me to build
[10:03] their websites now these were like
[10:05] either solo entrepreneurs or small
[10:08] businesses or Mom and Pop shops and
[10:11] things like that now these people want
[10:13] to they want a bill they want
[10:16] um they want a receipt and I wasn't
[10:19] doing that with my friends okay and so
[10:22] that's when in 2016 that's when I
[10:24] decided to actually establish an LLC and
[10:28] I decided to legit you know legitimize
[10:31] you know my web agency because I wanted
[10:34] to be above board when it came to the
[10:38] business side accounting bookkeeping
[10:40] receipts all of that so it was the
[10:43] client I was getting that forced me to
[10:46] actually create a business entity and
[10:50] start operating an agency yeah so that's
[10:52] how that happened and so uh with the
[10:54] makeup I stopped doing that because
[10:55] pregnant with my son it became hard on
[10:58] my back with the catering I was doing
[11:00] both side by side and I felt like
[11:03] to be honest the web agency was less
[11:06] energy you know anybody who cooks will
[11:09] tell you cooking takes a lot of energy
[11:11] and so that's how I made the decision
[11:14] and all of these Ventures allowed me to
[11:18] remain home which if you remember was
[11:21] like my my highest value at the time was
[11:23] I wanted to be at home I wanted to be in
[11:27] that domestic
[11:28] um yes
[11:31] that's awesome I did not know and any
[11:33] any one of these could have been bigger
[11:35] right yes because I've seen many people
[11:38] have made that big cooking so again it
[11:43] it just proved the point right there are
[11:45] so many things yes it would have been
[11:48] um and all you have to do is to just
[11:51] keep trying yes and God will show you
[11:54] the path yes you will be directed I know
[11:56] for me I like I said with the web agency
[12:00] and it came natural to me right I have
[12:03] like a natural entrepreneurial spirit so
[12:05] I was able to put myself into the shoes
[12:08] of my clients and actually anticipate
[12:11] their business needs even before they
[12:13] articulated them I was able to say hey
[12:16] you're going to need this you're going
[12:17] to need a booking form you're going to
[12:19] need online processing and they may not
[12:21] have been there but I was able to
[12:23] anticipate that and create that solution
[12:25] and then they were like how did I live
[12:28] without this all my life you know and so
[12:30] that was like a rush for me I actually
[12:33] enjoyed I enjoyed like the word pressing
[12:36] but I truly enjoyed seeing that look on
[12:40] people's faces when they realize that
[12:42] now life is going to be easier because
[12:45] of something that I created yeah that
[12:47] was the rush for me that was my
[12:49] experience too
[12:50] um there was a point where where we
[12:54] implemented something called nintex and
[12:59] my original idea was that in the
[13:02] corporate Enterprise I will be able to
[13:04] make a trance from some of the
[13:07] paper-based trial process into
[13:09] electronic process and but my experience
[13:11] was that each project that we did we
[13:15] have to help them transform their
[13:18] current process okay first and do you
[13:21] think oh my God we was having these 10
[13:24] steps and now we reduced to five because
[13:27] we able to observe and document it so so
[13:31] that was eye-opening that even though
[13:34] somebody will claim that the software
[13:36] can do something right you still have to
[13:39] figure out how this person function or
[13:42] how this team function and then how
[13:44] optimized and then convert that into a
[13:47] software absolutely our website so
[13:51] I guess it that that was the point when
[13:54] you started getting all these uh
[13:56] requests and uh and you started putting
[13:59] more and more time that was the time
[14:01] when you felt limited because you did
[14:04] not know PHP yes straight so um yes so
[14:09] with WordPress the programming language
[14:11] is PHP I didn't know any PHP up until
[14:15] that point I was you know organizing
[14:17] themes you know
[14:19] WordPress has such a rich ecosystem of
[14:22] plugins that can do virtually anything
[14:27] um but yeah
[14:28] um it got to a point where my client uh
[14:31] recommendations started getting so
[14:35] complex that I couldn't put together
[14:38] enough plugins I couldn't configure
[14:40] enough themes to actually do what it is
[14:44] they needed me to do and so that was I I
[14:47] kid you not that was the first time that
[14:52] it occurred to me that learning to code
[14:54] might be a good thing it had never
[14:57] crossed my mind before literally never
[14:59] but once I started getting to the limit
[15:02] of what I could do with plugins and
[15:04] themes and I knew that oh if I I just
[15:07] knew how to go into this file and tweak
[15:10] and change and maybe you know like
[15:12] create a child theme or create like a
[15:15] modified like or even build my own
[15:17] plug-in but I knew I couldn't do that
[15:19] without knowing how to code so that was
[15:21] when the idea first came to me and at
[15:23] the time I was pregnant with my second
[15:25] child yes
[15:27] so this this is another example that he
[15:31] was going after the intuition you're
[15:33] going after the situation right this is
[15:36] a situation where you have job but to be
[15:38] able to be more effective you have to do
[15:42] something so so once you decide that you
[15:45] are you want to go into
[15:48] um you want to go learn
[15:51] uh programming
[15:53] you started doing uh these boot camps
[15:56] and you said you did five or six boot
[15:58] camps at that point many boot camps yes
[16:01] so when I when I um decided to learn to
[16:05] code of course I'm on Google and I
[16:07] discovered that there's these things
[16:09] called coding boot camps right and I did
[16:13] my research you know discovered how
[16:15] expensive a lot of them are and I was
[16:19] like this is a lot of money but a lot of
[16:22] them offered many trials almost right
[16:25] like a week here two weeks here some up
[16:27] to four weeks and so I decided to try
[16:31] all of them out as many as offered like
[16:34] mini versions I tried all of them out
[16:37] just to get a feel for what I was going
[16:40] to experience if I committed to the
[16:42] entire boot camp right and so that was
[16:45] an eye-opening experience because I was
[16:47] excited that I was coding funnily enough
[16:50] I didn't choose a PHP
[16:54] uh based boot camp even to to trial
[16:57] because I did my research and I
[17:01] discovered that at this point I really
[17:03] was one foot in either
[17:06] um in either Land one foot was okay I
[17:09] might continue with my web agency and
[17:12] the other foot was hey this might end up
[17:15] being a new career now I did I hadn't
[17:17] made a decision at this point but I was
[17:20] aware of the opportunities that learning
[17:23] how to code would give me and so I
[17:25] decided to go with the boot camps that
[17:28] seemed to be the most popular and the
[17:30] most successful right yeah how did you
[17:33] find them
[17:35] Google I just I mean sorry I mean to ask
[17:38] that when you searched even today
[17:42] uh within five minutes you will have a
[17:44] list of 50. right and I'm sure there was
[17:47] the case with you so selecting one that
[17:51] you will go after yes that thought
[17:54] process and then second with this uh uh
[17:58] six mini bootcamp were they free or they
[18:00] pay they were free yes they were free I
[18:07] or like their first couple modules you
[18:10] know and then after you're done then you
[18:12] have to pay to continue so that was
[18:14] that's what I mean by mini bootcamp they
[18:17] were free
[18:18] um in terms of making the decision so it
[18:20] was a number of things I first Googled
[18:22] you know coding bootcamp or coding
[18:25] bootcamp new beginner or coding boot
[18:29] camp never coded you know like I just I
[18:32] wanted to capture you know what suited
[18:35] my my you know my profile and um and
[18:39] then I also went by reviews and so
[18:41] whatever list I generated I went hunting
[18:44] for reviews I look for reviews on Reddit
[18:47] I looked for reviews on you know other
[18:50] sort of like message aggregatory rights
[18:54] um and based on the reviews and then I
[18:56] also looked at you know the website the
[18:59] curriculum you know I looked for uh you
[19:02] know
[19:03] um like curriculum that seemed to be
[19:06] robust I had a little bit of training in
[19:08] systems engineer hearing and so I also
[19:11] use that
[19:13] um to also judge right and so when I
[19:16] made those list of six it was after
[19:18] looking at reviews it was after taking
[19:20] their mini boot camps and price was also
[19:23] a big factor I actually chose The
[19:25] Bootcamp that I chose uh one of my top
[19:28] reasons was the price and at the time
[19:32] they didn't have isas because I read the
[19:36] isas the income sharing agreements and
[19:39] they didn't make me very uh comfortable
[19:42] because of the extent of information
[19:45] that they were requiring from you what I
[19:47] liked about the boot camp that I chose
[19:49] was you could either pay upfront or you
[19:52] could take a standard loan and for me a
[19:55] standard loan just made more sense than
[19:58] an Isa the isas just seemed to be very
[20:02] and to be honest they were brand new at
[20:04] the time it was a new payment vehicle
[20:06] you know like granted but I decided to
[20:09] go the traditional loan route because it
[20:11] made sense to me yes finally I chose the
[20:14] boot camp I did because all the other
[20:16] boot camps required you to attend some
[20:20] form of live instruction at the time my
[20:23] child was five months old and so I just
[20:26] I knew that if I fell behind it it would
[20:30] really demoralize me and so the bootcamp
[20:33] that I chose was self-paced all the
[20:35] videos were pre-loaded and you just
[20:37] opened each video as you went along
[20:40] there were no cohorts there were no live
[20:42] instruction and I felt I could control
[20:44] my Pace better yes with that
[20:48] then the the six mini bootcamp that you
[20:52] took was from the same uh boot camp
[20:56] so six different yes right again I
[20:59] wanted to get a feel for if I continue
[21:02] with this boot camp how is it going to
[21:04] feel and I I felt like the mini boot
[21:07] camps would give me an idea yes yeah so
[21:10] what I was trying to highlight is uh the
[21:13] thought process right around how you
[21:15] find and then how you kind of validate
[21:18] it this is a good idea before spending
[21:20] six thousand and uh I I wish if uh
[21:24] people can follow that and what I see on
[21:27] Twitter that they will start with
[21:29] something X and then two weeks later
[21:32] they will switch to why and something
[21:35] else because there's so much good
[21:36] reasons so much yes how and and many of
[21:40] them are free right now yes there's a
[21:43] lot more
[21:47] about 400
[21:49] four and a half years been old the
[21:52] explosion of resources is insane it's
[21:56] nowhere near what it was when I was
[21:58] starting definitely I still cannot
[22:01] believe that people are asking for six
[22:04] thousand for a six-month boot camp like
[22:06] that was cheap
[22:13] charging 12 000 13
[22:16] 000 yes and I took their mini boot camps
[22:18] but I just felt like this is just way
[22:20] too much money
[22:22] um the boot camp that I took
[22:24] was one I think it was the cheapest out
[22:27] of the six that I was considering yes it
[22:30] was the cheapest for six thousand I
[22:33] think I spent
[22:34] my life and wrong thing like 23 year
[22:37] experience with with my nine to my job
[22:40] if I had done something like this right
[22:43] they they record it I mean you're saying
[22:45] these are recorded which is mentorship
[22:48] so there is still effort that they are
[22:51] making but the full chunk is one time
[22:54] yes and then then they have uh support
[22:57] Personnel right yes again shout out to
[22:59] your mental gym yes oh my the one like
[23:05] influential factor in my story was my my
[23:09] boot camp Mentor
[23:11] um Jeremy
[23:13] made me believe that I could do it
[23:16] everything else was telling me I
[23:19] couldn't everything else I was exhausted
[23:23] I was you know just feeling like I don't
[23:28] belong here these concepts are tough I
[23:32] can't think like a computer
[23:34] those were all the things that I was
[23:36] experiencing but Jeremy was that one
[23:39] Guiding Light that you know he would
[23:42] tell me he said all right where I work
[23:45] we can only hire locally if you lived
[23:48] where I lived I would give you a job
[23:51] like he would tell me things like that
[23:53] and I think hearing that from a senior
[23:55] engineer like I was willing to believe
[23:59] him over myself because myself I didn't
[24:02] believe but him I chose to believe yes
[24:07] can you give another one or two more
[24:10] example of how something practical that
[24:13] that happened with Jeremy that that
[24:16] helped you yes
[24:18] um Jeremy so we had as as part of the
[24:21] boot camp
[24:23] one hours sessions with our mentor and
[24:26] the purpose of these sessions was to go
[24:28] over homework go over projects and so
[24:31] when when the program introduced us to
[24:35] test driven development writing tests
[24:37] for your code Jeremy is a tdd fanatic
[24:42] okay and so you know writing those tests
[24:46] with his guidance was amazing because he
[24:49] went completely beyond the boot camp
[24:52] material and taught me about the value
[24:55] of tests why tests matter started
[24:58] teaching me about continuous integration
[25:00] and continuous delivery and I was able
[25:04] to take those Concepts into my
[25:06] interviews yes I was able to take those
[25:09] Concepts even though the boot camp made
[25:12] us to write tests for one app I was so
[25:16] uh like I fell in love with testing I
[25:19] went and wrote tests for all the other
[25:21] applications I had built before that app
[25:23] right right and so that was a concrete
[25:26] way that I think Jeremy helped me to
[25:29] start thinking like a developer not just
[25:31] in terms of coding but the whole
[25:33] ecosystem that you function in as a
[25:36] developer yes so that was one major way
[25:39] um another way that he helped me so this
[25:42] was post boot camp right I was in the
[25:44] job market and he helped me sort of you
[25:49] know create a framework for completing
[25:52] take homes right because I would I would
[25:54] have two or three days for a take-home
[25:57] Challenge and I would freeze for two of
[26:00] the three days and then the last day
[26:02] just try to you know regurgitate
[26:05] something and so because I was just so
[26:07] nervous and you know at first glance the
[26:09] challenge just seemed like way over my
[26:12] head yes
[26:14] um Jeremy was instrumental in teaching
[26:16] me how to break problems down and so you
[26:20] know we wouldn't work on the challenge
[26:21] because it was a challenge but he would
[26:23] bring something else and say okay let's
[26:25] break this down together how would you
[26:28] chop this up into little pieces okay
[26:31] which piece do you feel more confident
[26:33] attacking first right and so that
[26:35] process of problem breakdown is you know
[26:38] he taught me and it was helpful because
[26:41] as I worked on my take-homes I was able
[26:44] to document my process Jeremy taught me
[26:47] the power of documentation documenting
[26:50] what you're doing using comments in your
[26:53] code
[26:54] I learned that from him yes so
[26:58] did you also learn the work breakdown
[27:00] structure at that point Sorry say again
[27:02] work breakdown structure
[27:05] work breakdown you mean in terms of
[27:07] coding work yes so so if you have a
[27:10] requirement you're breaking it into
[27:12] testing coding yeah
[27:15] the features right yeah to an extent I
[27:19] mean for the most part take homes are
[27:20] not very extensive right but you know
[27:23] because I was being evaluated the stress
[27:25] of being in the job search you know
[27:28] process yes and so he helped me through
[27:31] a lot of my anxiety and like freezing up
[27:34] yes and he he taught me how to you know
[27:37] he would always say something all right
[27:38] you don't have to have a solution at the
[27:40] beginning
[27:41] there's a reason they've given you three
[27:43] days he would always say that there's a
[27:45] reason they've given you two days
[27:46] there's a reason they've given you three
[27:48] days they didn't give you two hours
[27:49] right so he would always tell me release
[27:52] the pressure of thinking you have to
[27:54] know the answer at the beginning you
[27:56] know it's a process you know it was just
[27:58] it's a whole like technique right and so
[28:01] it was it was good to have that coaching
[28:03] yes
[28:05] so um
[28:06] audit at that point doing this for six
[28:10] months yes how how did you a couple of
[28:14] questions there how did you focus okay
[28:17] how did you avoided other shiny object
[28:21] during yes yes how did you believe that
[28:24] you can finish it whether it is six
[28:27] month or eight months and that's that's
[28:30] my not the star I have to finish it by
[28:32] this time or I mean whatever time right
[28:34] but I have to do something every day yes
[28:37] get to the Finish Line how how did okay
[28:40] so there was a number of things the
[28:42] first thing was I was already on hook
[28:44] for the money okay I was already on hook
[28:47] for the money I had taken the loan the
[28:49] school had gotten their money I was now
[28:52] a debtor to the loan company so that was
[28:56] very motivating okay because because in
[29:00] my mind if I get to the end of this
[29:02] thing and I'm able to get a job as a
[29:05] developer then paying that loan is not
[29:07] going to be as difficult as it would if
[29:09] I didn't make it to the end yes so that
[29:11] was a huge motivator just knowing that I
[29:14] was on the hook for that loan and I just
[29:16] I didn't want to suffer under it right
[29:19] like I chose to suffer the boot camp
[29:21] then suffer you know owing that money so
[29:25] that was one aspect the second thing was
[29:29] enjoyed it the note I enjoyed till today
[29:33] I called to relax if you can believe it
[29:36] when I want to relax I cold like I
[29:39] enjoyed just the feeling that I'm
[29:42] building something this thing is working
[29:45] you fill out the form you know things
[29:48] that I had gotten used to as a user now
[29:51] I was a producer now I was a creator of
[29:54] those things that was exciting I
[29:57] actually enjoyed the coursework okay I
[30:00] think the third thing was
[30:04] I'm just very ambitious as a person it's
[30:07] a character trait in me it's hard for me
[30:10] to if I'm gonna lie down and quit I want
[30:15] to know that I did everything during
[30:18] this six month period I felt very sick
[30:21] for 10 days and my daughter was sick at
[30:24] the same time I was nursing her
[30:26] exclusively and so she had no other you
[30:30] know food source I mean there were just
[30:33] so many challenges at the time in my
[30:36] sort of like my friendship Network
[30:38] Splunk as uh as a technology was kind of
[30:41] picking up popularity you know in my
[30:44] friendship groups and you know my
[30:46] friends will come and tell me how quote
[30:47] unquote easy it was oh all right you
[30:50] know forget about that coding stuff come
[30:52] over and learn this like I had those
[30:55] invitations all the time but again that
[30:57] loan that six thousand dollar loan I was
[31:01] like nope
[31:03] I don't I don't want to have any
[31:05] creditors on my neck and so
[31:08] just a combination of those things I
[31:10] think
[31:11] I think ultimately I felt like I mean
[31:14] I've done like a four-year course in
[31:16] college I have i at the time I had
[31:18] master's degrees that were two years
[31:20] each in my mind I felt like this is six
[31:24] months apart like this isn't the longest
[31:27] program that you've ever taken you know
[31:29] you've taken longer programs and gotten
[31:31] to the end and so in my mind I felt like
[31:34] if you if you quit before six months
[31:37] like you're weak you know and I think I
[31:40] used to talk to myself like that like
[31:42] you're not weak okay you're not a weak
[31:44] woman so go ahead and get this done yeah
[31:47] but um
[31:49] yeah I would say a combination of those
[31:51] things so I want to touch uh something
[31:54] which is I feel like very ingrained to
[31:58] your values
[32:01] um when you was in college third year
[32:04] you had that exact same feeling of the
[32:06] failure that you are feeling where you
[32:08] couldn't handle it yes and then um you
[32:11] had the exact same feeling when they let
[32:13] you go yes and you had exact same
[32:15] feeling when you couldn't get the
[32:18] interview like during the interview yes
[32:21] why why that feeling is so important for
[32:24] you
[32:27] you know I think it comes from
[32:30] you know growing up I was always the
[32:33] best
[32:34] okay and what I mean by that is in in
[32:37] primary school elementary school for the
[32:39] Americans in primary school I was always
[32:42] the best
[32:43] I was the best at math I was the best in
[32:46] English I was the best at science in
[32:48] secondary school high middle school and
[32:51] high school for the Americans
[32:53] um I was always the best I was always
[32:56] one of the top three you know like we
[32:58] had a running joke in my in my set in my
[33:01] class that don't bother checking the top
[33:04] three it's always going to be the same
[33:05] three people it's either art first and
[33:07] these two people are in second I was
[33:09] always first second or third you know
[33:12] um and so
[33:14] when I got to college vinod
[33:17] that was when I had my first taste of
[33:22] not being the best
[33:23] and I think psychologically I didn't
[33:27] know how to process that and it's now
[33:31] you know being older that I am I realize
[33:35] that a big part of my value my
[33:38] self-value and my self-worth was tied up
[33:41] in always being the best
[33:43] you know being the child with the
[33:46] plaques the achievement plaques on the
[33:48] wall you know the pride of my father
[33:51] when he told his friends my daughter was
[33:54] first in science my daughter was first
[33:56] right and so I think when I came across
[34:00] real struggle I didn't know because the
[34:03] note I never really had to struggle
[34:05] before I never truly had to work for it
[34:09] in primary and secondary school college
[34:11] was the first time that I actually had
[34:14] to work at just being okay not even the
[34:18] best you know and that's the truth in
[34:22] college I didn't know how to handle it
[34:25] um and so I just I just not that I gave
[34:29] up but I kind of went because I say this
[34:32] all the time you know like my son
[34:33] actually my son now he asks me he says
[34:36] mama you know if if you could go back to
[34:39] that time and do something different
[34:42] would you have gone on to be a doctor
[34:44] and I said absolutely
[34:46] because I would have understood that
[34:48] just because you failed once doesn't
[34:50] mean you're a failure and that was what
[34:53] I internalized when I was in college
[34:55] when I had I had organic chemistry
[34:58] physical chemistry and biochemistry all
[34:59] in one semester and so just the workload
[35:02] was massive and I didn't get good grades
[35:07] any I think rational person would say oh
[35:11] okay I didn't do well in this course let
[35:13] me repeat it vinod repeating of course
[35:16] wasn't an option in my brain at that
[35:18] time and so if I did do well it means I
[35:22] was a failure that was my mindset yeah
[35:25] of course it has changed it changed it
[35:27] had to change I wouldn't be where I am
[35:29] today if I still had that mindset but I
[35:32] think it's very important that we pay
[35:34] attention to what we internalized from
[35:37] our experiences just because you failed
[35:40] at something doesn't mean you're a
[35:42] failure doesn't mean that that field or
[35:45] that industry is automatically hands off
[35:47] to you yeah so
[35:51] thank you for sharing that sure thank
[35:53] you there's two two points here right
[35:56] two hidden gems there
[36:00] um number one you use the word
[36:03] self-worth Dash to these items uh
[36:08] the point there is sometimes I'm not
[36:10] just
[36:13] a glimpse or something is there right
[36:17] it's it's a very small that sometime
[36:22] when this happened you attach your
[36:26] self-worth yes to other people
[36:29] um acceptance and approval yes
[36:31] absolutely and and as you said now on
[36:36] the other side
[36:37] you don't need anybody's praise you you
[36:40] don't need anybody approval you decide
[36:42] what you want to do and you you are the
[36:45] one who is validating not other people
[36:47] yes and and I think we all go through
[36:51] that right our school system is like
[36:53] yeah the teacher approval yes and your
[36:56] parents your parents come into the job
[36:59] you start looking at your boss yes and
[37:02] and uh because he's the one who is
[37:04] giving you annual reviews yes so you
[37:07] start
[37:08] I mean it's so natural for everyone to
[37:11] fall into this but there there is a time
[37:14] in life and you you feel like now
[37:17] I don't need anybody's approval and
[37:19] that's where all it begins not everyone
[37:22] gets there
[37:23] thank you not everyone gets there I
[37:26] recently had a conversation with my son
[37:28] about this he had you know he's coding
[37:30] too my son's JavaScript is better than
[37:32] mine
[37:33] um and so or my attorney inspired him go
[37:36] ahead how old is he he's 11.
[37:40] yes and his JavaScript is better than
[37:43] mine I kid you not and so he was coding
[37:47] this game right and he had completed it
[37:50] and he asked me to check it out and I
[37:52] checked it out and he said Mama what do
[37:54] you think and I said what do you think
[37:57] and he said oh I don't know I just I
[37:59] want to get your feedback and I said
[38:02] before I give you feedback I want you to
[38:04] grade yourself
[38:06] I want you to evaluate yourself what do
[38:08] you think about your work you know and
[38:10] so I'm teaching him how never ever
[38:14] Elevate what anyone says to the level of
[38:18] their approval of you the maximum should
[38:21] be feedback but you decide for yourself
[38:24] am I happy with my work if you are happy
[38:27] genuinely with your work it shouldn't
[38:29] matter what anyone else says and the
[38:31] converse is true even if people are
[38:34] praising you if you yourself know that
[38:37] you're capable of more be willing to
[38:40] hold on to that right don't fall to a
[38:43] mediocre for you level just because
[38:45] Outsiders say oh it's so wonderful so
[38:48] it's something that I'm teaching my
[38:49] children now yeah
[38:52] absolutely good Mom thank you
[38:56] the second point there second aspect of
[38:59] that is the uh the time
[39:02] from the point where you lay let go yes
[39:05] to the point when you got this job yes
[39:08] all the struggles uh and whatever
[39:11] happened you may not remember each and
[39:13] every detail but if ever there is a
[39:17] situation you won't be
[39:20] um like you won't even feel for a second
[39:22] that you won't get through it right
[39:25] those are the moment that you give your
[39:27] lifelong strength yes
[39:30] you know one thing I always say you know
[39:32] I'm very open about my age I'm going to
[39:34] be 42 next week and the reason why I
[39:37] share my age my first developer Job 38
[39:40] wrote my first line of code 37. the
[39:43] reason why I share my age so freely is
[39:45] because I really want people to know
[39:48] that there is no time limit on evolution
[39:52] there is no time limit and I think it's
[39:56] a waste of time to fixate on the time
[40:00] that you've passed the time that you've
[40:04] quote unquote lost right you can accept
[40:07] it and you can embrace it but don't fix
[40:10] it on it because when you fix it on the
[40:13] past your presence becomes a part of
[40:16] that test
[40:17] you can't maximize your present if
[40:19] you're fixated on the past you can't
[40:21] like you have to pick one okay either
[40:24] You're Gonna Keep regretting your past
[40:25] or you're going to start maximizing your
[40:28] presence and the future doesn't belong
[40:30] to anybody doesn't belong to anybody
[40:33] okay and so those are the only two
[40:36] points that we own we own our past and
[40:38] we own our present but you can't you
[40:41] can't be focused on both at the same
[40:43] time it really it doesn't work
[40:46] um and so you're right there was a lot
[40:47] of time I was let go from that job I
[40:49] think it was 20 2013 I think I was let
[40:53] go 2013 and I landed my first job in
[40:57] Tech in 2019.
[40:58] so that was six six years plus yes six
[41:03] years
[41:04] I started writing something and then I
[41:06] lost it oh that's okay
[41:09] um
[41:11] I wanted to ask you
[41:13] um moving to the last segment okay and I
[41:17] wanted to ask you
[41:18] um actually
[41:21] there are so much to cover more but I
[41:25] will get to
[41:26] um the advice part right okay if
[41:29] somebody in the same situation where
[41:32] um we have two type of people
[41:34] that we are interacting with number one
[41:37] um somebody fresh whether from the age
[41:40] or whatever their age is uh the freshers
[41:44] are fresh right they they want to get
[41:46] into the tech right what would be your
[41:48] advice to them
[41:53] I think they
[41:58] they at the start you know one thing
[42:01] that happens especially on social media
[42:03] which I think is not a good thing is
[42:06] people choose areas in Tech based on
[42:10] what the influencers are saying an
[42:13] influencer's life can never be your own
[42:16] and so do yourself the favor of
[42:20] exploration even if you think you know
[42:23] right be willing to doubt yourself just
[42:26] enough that even if you think you know
[42:28] what you want to do do yourself the
[42:31] favor of exploring the different areas
[42:34] they are we mentioned how many free
[42:36] courses that are available now take
[42:39] advantage of those free courses don't
[42:42] make any decisions in the beginning
[42:43] expose yourself to the material expose
[42:46] yourself to the industry and give your
[42:50] give your mind and give your soul the
[42:53] opportunity to experience what is
[42:57] available so that you can make a
[43:00] decision based on what resonates with
[43:03] you it may be hard look let me tell you
[43:06] coding is hard I still find coding hard
[43:09] but coding resonates with me in a way
[43:13] that systems engineering just didn't do
[43:16] in a way that that um you know product
[43:18] just did you know these are things that
[43:21] I dipped my toe in and they just didn't
[43:24] draw me like coding did and I think
[43:27] people think that if something draws you
[43:29] it needs to come easy to you no you can
[43:32] be drawn by the hardest thing you've
[43:34] ever done okay so it's not the ease of
[43:38] the material but does it resonate with
[43:40] your being does it resonate with is it
[43:43] something that you can choose to do like
[43:45] for me I love watching television
[43:47] I love watching TV I love watching shows
[43:50] but I can I can refuse a show if it
[43:55] means I get to code okay so that's what
[43:59] you want to do please do not make the
[44:01] mistake of being carried Along by Tech
[44:04] influencers don't do something because
[44:07] our developer says oh this is the
[44:09] hardest thing in town it's hard to me it
[44:12] may not be hard to you right so that's
[44:15] something that I see a lot of beginners
[44:17] doing and then unfortunately you know
[44:20] they now may even go into paid resources
[44:23] paid courses paid and then they find out
[44:27] this really isn't me but now they've
[44:29] paid all this money right and even if
[44:32] you don't pay you've wasted well no time
[44:35] is really wasted but you've spent time
[44:38] that could have been better spent
[44:39] another way yes so that would be my top
[44:42] advice for a complete beginner it's just
[44:45] be a little promiscuous okay just you
[44:48] know just play the field yeah play the
[44:51] field a little bit yeah before you
[44:53] decide and I always suggest that
[44:55] programming is just one of the area you
[44:58] have you have product you have so many
[45:01] lists you have marketing you have devop
[45:04] I mean it's so so many times that you
[45:07] can get into the duration side of it yes
[45:10] um I have seen and I I have wrote myself
[45:13] as well which I'm guilty of but uh
[45:18] you can grab the attention and then you
[45:20] can share the the wealth of the
[45:23] knowledge so
[45:25] you have taken six months just to its
[45:29] study and more than six months for
[45:33] interviews right yeah so
[45:36] um I think it could be a typical it
[45:39] could take somebody from a year or two
[45:41] yes to get into the tag yes and uh I
[45:46] would say that's kind of that probably
[45:49] you need that kind of mindset that
[45:50] you're getting into this with that long
[45:53] yes if you are young no worries you can
[45:56] do it with your job your studies but if
[46:00] you are
[46:01] um like us
[46:03] you need something like you need a
[46:06] full-time job you need a job take care
[46:08] of yourself
[46:09] a year or two I think that's kind of the
[46:12] mindset that people need
[46:14] yes you know timeline is so important
[46:18] and I think balance is key right it's
[46:22] good to have a little bit of timeline
[46:25] pressure as much as it can keep you like
[46:29] let me give an example my boot camp it
[46:31] was six months if you were not completed
[46:34] with the material in six months they
[46:37] would extend month to month and you pay
[46:40] money
[46:41] so that was a big incentive for me I had
[46:44] already paid six thousand I wasn't about
[46:47] to start paying 1005 because that was
[46:51] the cost of the extra months was fifteen
[46:53] hundred dollars okay
[46:55] that was not acceptable to me and so
[46:59] that little bit of pressure helped me
[47:02] okay it helped me to push through some
[47:05] fatigue push through some
[47:07] disillusionment and just keep going
[47:09] because like I said I choose my
[47:11] suffering the note okay like I I like I
[47:14] choose my suffering I didn't want to
[47:16] suffer an additional price so I chose to
[47:20] suffer in other ways right so there's
[47:23] certain types of pressure that I think
[47:25] could help you stay consistent but you
[47:30] need to be careful because when you
[47:33] adopt an unrealistic timeline
[47:37] you end up artificially
[47:41] being disappointed your disappointment
[47:44] is artificial because the timeline was
[47:47] unrealistic right and so you have people
[47:50] out here wanting to land a job in three
[47:52] months and when it doesn't happen they
[47:55] get discouraged they conclude oh I'm not
[47:57] good enough I'm not cut out for this
[47:59] what if on the track that they were they
[48:03] were going to land a job in five months
[48:05] well guess what that never happened
[48:07] because they gave an arbitrary number
[48:11] right of three months not really based
[48:14] on anything maybe an influencer maybe
[48:16] some but someone with a hundred thousand
[48:19] followers you know like and so it's
[48:22] really balanced you don't want to go too
[48:25] off the deep end of it doesn't matter
[48:27] how long because the reality is as
[48:30] humans I mean think about it you go to
[48:32] the gym what do you do you stress your
[48:34] muscles that's what makes them grow and
[48:37] so if you go too far on the deep end on
[48:39] the other end where you say oh it
[48:42] doesn't matter how long it takes me
[48:43] without any sense of helpful pressure
[48:46] you might be in it for eight years and
[48:49] you still haven't right you know and so
[48:52] you don't want its balance okay you have
[48:54] to find the balance the sweet spot right
[48:56] in the middle yeah
[48:59] so Earth we have about 10 minutes okay
[49:02] so we have two options either we can
[49:04] cover the other ear we can spend more
[49:06] time here because this is great
[49:08] conversation it's up to you I defer to
[49:12] you okay so during this time
[49:15] um when you was doing this course yes
[49:18] and then second
[49:20] when you was from course was finished
[49:23] and you was preparing for interview
[49:24] during these two times yes how a typical
[49:27] day looked like or a week look like oh
[49:29] my gosh okay so I wasn't working into
[49:31] the time management yes okay I wasn't
[49:34] working I had my digital agency
[49:38] um when I started boot camp I stopped
[49:40] taking new clients so I was just
[49:43] supporting my current clients and their
[49:45] websites were built typical requests
[49:48] were oh we need a new email we need more
[49:51] space we need something changed so this
[49:54] page that page so the digital agency
[49:56] wasn't as time consuming as it could
[49:59] have been because I just temporarily I
[50:01] stopped taking new clients I wasn't
[50:03] working full time out of the home so
[50:06] that definitely and I had two two kids
[50:08] my son was in school my daughter was an
[50:12] infant yes now a typical day was as
[50:15] follows my daughter did not like to
[50:18] sleep during the day
[50:20] um and so and she was I I nursed her
[50:24] exclusively for the first six seven
[50:26] months of her life right and so during
[50:29] the day I couldn't get anything done I
[50:32] couldn't really get any studying and so
[50:33] what I chose to do was I would just play
[50:36] my lecture videos in the background I
[50:39] wasn't even really able to pay attention
[50:41] because my child was very demanding as
[50:44] she should be right I'm her mother
[50:47] um so I just played my lecture videos in
[50:50] the background and I would listen as I
[50:53] could right whenever she did manage to
[50:55] take a nap I was also napping because
[50:57] she wasn't a big day sleeper right so I
[51:00] didn't do anything during the day apart
[51:02] from my domestic beauty is cooking and
[51:05] all of that now because I knew that she
[51:08] wasn't a day sleeper I decided to
[51:10] prioritize her night sleep and so I
[51:13] built a solid routine with her a bath
[51:16] routine massage story right and so she
[51:20] consistently went to bed around seven
[51:23] o'clock at night and she would sleep
[51:25] till about 11 30 12 midnight that was
[51:28] when I studied and so I would study from
[51:31] seven
[51:32] sometimes to 11 30 sometimes to midnight
[51:36] that was when I studied at this time my
[51:40] son would be back from school I would
[51:42] tell his father both of y'all y'all just
[51:45] you know pretend I'm not here okay
[51:51] I was what that was what I did that was
[51:54] how I studied you know I studied like
[51:57] that from 7 to 11 or 12 midnight for six
[52:01] months seven days a week Sundays
[52:02] included
[52:04] that was what my boot camp required that
[52:06] was what I required because in addition
[52:08] to going through the material I had to
[52:10] do homework I had to build projects and
[52:13] then I had to do like my Google you know
[52:15] stuff that didn't make sense I had to go
[52:17] I had to teach myself right and so that
[52:20] was my schedule
[52:22] um throughout the six months that was my
[52:25] schedule
[52:26] um if I took a day off it would be a
[52:28] Sunday
[52:30] um those were very very few very few
[52:34] um I mentioned being sick I was sick for
[52:36] 10 days my daughter too sick for 10 days
[52:39] even through those 10 days I would study
[52:41] not as many hours maybe two or three but
[52:44] I would study yeah
[52:46] um that was my that was my schedule that
[52:49] was that was my my schedule for the six
[52:51] months now for job hunting that was a
[52:53] little different well before we go there
[52:55] okay you could go there okay you said
[52:58] you like watching TV yes you how did you
[53:01] save that zero no how did you control
[53:04] yourself I wasn't watching any TV even
[53:07] though oh I I should because six
[53:11] thousand dollars
[53:12] hahaha
[53:13] that's how
[53:15] it was always at the back of my mind
[53:18] um you know there has to be something
[53:20] there has to be something because
[53:22] um for doing that for six um six days a
[53:26] week or six months there has to be a
[53:29] bigger some drive inside yes
[53:32] I'm naturally ambitious I mean it is a
[53:35] character trait of mine I'm naturally
[53:37] ambitious
[53:38] um
[53:39] I I wasn't watching TV and it was
[53:42] painful because you know I had friends
[53:45] telling me about the season that I
[53:47] wasn't watching you know it was hard
[53:49] I've told the story of I would go
[53:51] because my friend my Friendship Circle
[53:53] we would have girls night twice a month
[53:55] I didn't go for an entire year
[53:59] I didn't go
[54:01] because it was that important to me
[54:04] it was that important I was going to get
[54:08] to the end of this thing
[54:10] and I was going to be able to have
[54:13] skills that I could turn into money
[54:16] you know it was just there was just no
[54:20] longer way yes
[54:22] remarkable I'm glad that I asked that
[54:25] question
[54:27] all right so during the interview time
[54:29] interview time it was a little different
[54:31] so my daughter was a little older at
[54:33] this time which was nice
[54:35] um and so my main challenges was when I
[54:38] had to go because this was pre-covered
[54:40] when I had to go on on sites
[54:44] um because it wasn't it wasn't like now
[54:47] now everything is virtual and some
[54:50] companies will do virtual up until the
[54:53] final round but there were a lot of
[54:55] companies who wanted to see you in the
[54:57] middle rounds as well not just the final
[54:59] right and so thankfully I just have such
[55:01] an amazing Friendship Circle you know my
[55:04] Friendship Circle who either they work
[55:05] from home or they were you know
[55:07] Homemakers like I was you know I was
[55:10] able to leave my daughter with them and
[55:12] go on my interviews because my partner
[55:14] of course I couldn't take her to his job
[55:17] right so that was very helpful village
[55:19] community is so important your village
[55:22] your community your tribe is so
[55:24] important I know for me I wouldn't be
[55:26] where I was now a typical day was in the
[55:29] morning learning
[55:31] um I am I am most Alert in the evenings
[55:34] right like that's when my deep focused
[55:37] mind turns on is in the evenings and so
[55:40] I would structure them and then I am
[55:42] highest energy not necessarily deep
[55:44] focus but energy I'm highest in the
[55:47] morning and so I would schedule my
[55:49] interviews phone screen or whatever I
[55:52] will schedule them for the morning and
[55:54] then in the afternoon I will that was
[55:56] when that's when I'm lowest energy I
[55:58] always have like a slump in the
[56:00] afternoon and so in the afternoons I
[56:02] would do applications now with
[56:04] applications I had a Word document
[56:06] Google doc where whenever I answered a
[56:09] question for an application I put it in
[56:12] the Google Doc and it helped me to build
[56:14] a reservoir so I didn't have to come up
[56:17] with new stuff all the time depending on
[56:19] the application I just copy paste just
[56:21] change a little bit copy paste right so
[56:23] I had like almost like a resource
[56:25] document right and so the afternoons
[56:28] were my applications I put out five I
[56:30] put out seven you know and then in the
[56:33] evenings was two things either
[56:35] practicing my data structure algorithm
[56:37] practicing you know my code solving
[56:39] skills or doing take homes or coding
[56:43] challenges yes I kept for the evening
[56:46] again my daughter would be asleep I
[56:48] could focus yes
[56:51] and so I used the evening for those as
[56:54] well yeah so that was my typical like
[56:57] job searching day I didn't do that every
[57:00] day I would I would do that maybe three
[57:03] or four times a week right depending on
[57:06] if I had phone screens if I had
[57:08] interviews yeah but um
[57:11] that was my typical day yeah
[57:14] awesome thank you
[57:17] what I will do I will work with your
[57:19] assistant to a schedule a second round
[57:22] because I wanted to talk about all your
[57:24] mentorship everything that you're doing
[57:26] right now to to give back to the
[57:29] community yes
[57:31] um
[57:32] and I wanted to ask you if you want to
[57:35] share
[57:37] um well a message to the audience let's
[57:39] start from there and if you have a
[57:40] question for me uh if you want to answer
[57:43] something that I have not asked yet oh
[57:45] no that's fine
[57:46] um yes we're out of time this time I
[57:48] would love to come back I would love to
[57:50] be back we'll get that scheduled I want
[57:52] to thank you to know um you've been such
[57:54] a wonderful supporter and not just of me
[57:57] but you're just such an enthusiastic
[58:00] part of the Tech Community we've met on
[58:03] Spaces we've you know kind of shared
[58:06] that space together thank you so much
[58:08] for everything you're doing for the tech
[58:11] Community it's clear that empowering
[58:13] people is a passion of yours I resonate
[58:16] with that so thank you for having me on
[58:19] your podcast and thank you for
[58:20] everything that you're doing for people
[58:22] in Tech thank you
[58:25] thank you for those kind words
[58:27] um so with that
[58:29] thank you so much for being a guest on
[58:32] this I think this will be an amazing
[58:35] um episode with a lot of value for
[58:37] everyone to gain from
[58:39] um we cover the two areas which is super
[58:42] helpful your journey your thought
[58:45] process your emotions during those tough
[58:47] times yes
[58:49] thank you so much
[58:53] okay bye-bye foreign
[59:00] [Music]