Thomas Bookhamer is a Certified Agile Leader with over 35 years of experience in software development and project management, including 25+ years specifically in agile methodologies. He has evolved from project manager to VP of operations to scrum master, and now focuses on agile leadership transformation rather than traditional coaching roles.
Thomas Bookhamer demonstrates a deeply iterative approach to both personal and professional productivity, drawing from his 35 years of experience. He advocates for breaking down overwhelming goals into manageable pieces, sharing a powerful story from his childhood: "My mother literally said to me when I was 10 years old - just do this little bit and then bring that result to me. Don't think about the whole big thing, just do a little bit, get that right and then bring it to me, show it to me and when you show me that then we'll talk about what to do next." This foundational lesson shaped his entire career approach.
Bookhamer applies this iterative mindset consistently, explaining that "iterative means you do a few months and then you stop and reflect on how it went, reflect on what you've learned, reflect on what worked and what didn't work. From that, you decide what to do next." He contrasts this with traditional planning approaches, noting that organizations shouldn't plan feature roadmaps more than two or three quarters out because markets change. His productivity philosophy centers on short-term obtainable goals followed by reflection and feedback, which he describes as essential for growth.
Perhaps most notably, Bookhamer took a complete year-long sabbatical from coaching to study and develop his leadership approach when he realized his methods weren't achieving the desired results. "I literally took a year sabbatical from being a coach and really started to think into what's the problem," he explains. This demonstrates his commitment to continuous learning and his willingness to invest significant time in developing more effective methods, even at personal cost.
Bookhamer's core philosophy centers on the four values of the Leader's Journey: moving from 'me to we,' connecting with others, adding value to others, and achieving increased effectiveness through influence rather than authority. He emphasizes that "to have increased effectiveness and greater influence you must add value to others. To add value to others you must connect with them, and to connect with them you must move from me to we." This framework transcends agile practices and applies to all aspects of life, including family and personal relationships.
His closing message emphasizes authentic value creation over transactional relationships. "My heart is to add value to people, I am living the four values of the leaders journey," Bookhamer states. He acknowledges the importance of investment in personal growth, noting that while his interest is in adding value, "when you just give people stuff they don't really invest" in taking it seriously. His approach focuses on building learning communities where people grow together through shared experience rather than directive authority.
Ultimately, Bookhamer advocates for a fundamental shift from autocratic management cultures of authority to leadership cultures of influence and innovation. He believes true organizational transformation happens when internal leaders are equipped and empowered rather than relying on external coaches, creating sustainable cultural change that goes beyond process improvements to genuine organizational evolution.
"I am now highly rewarded for what I used to get in trouble for."
— Thomas Bookhamer Reflecting on how his career has come full circle from being a traditional project manager who got in trouble for agile-like practices to now being celebrated as an agile leader.
"We have to stop and listen to them listen to their ideas we need a less directive a less process driven culture and this is the first constraint to a successful agile organization is this directive culture."
— Thomas Bookhamer Explaining why organizations need to evolve from autocratic management cultures to leadership cultures that foster innovation and agility.
"What I want to create isn't agile coaches transformation coaches enterprise coaches that are external I want to create agile leaders that are in your organization your managers and directors become equipped to lead an agile organization instead of coaches that would come in and then go on."
— Thomas Bookhamer Describing his philosophy of developing internal agile leadership capability rather than relying on external consultants for transformation.
[0:00] so myself thomas bookhammer i i don't [0:02] even anymore call myself a agile coach [0:06] transformation coach [0:07] uh enterprise coach i am what i also [0:10] give as a certification a certified [0:12] agile leader [0:14] uh and and so what i have here is 25 [0:17] plus years of agile experience [0:20] and then beyond that my my experience as [0:23] a project manager goes back 35 [0:26] years [0:28] so what i like to say a lot of times is [0:30] that my careers come full circle 35 [0:32] years ago when i was a project manager [0:34] in the microsoft campus [0:36] our goal was lines of code are our the [0:39] way we measured things was very very [0:41] directive [0:42] and so i say this about my career i have [0:45] come full circle i am now highly [0:47] rewarded for what i used to get in [0:49] trouble for [0:50] so as a career as a project manager i [0:53] used to get in trouble by from the cio [0:56] by encouraging [0:58] what actually turned into be when the [1:00] agile manifesto was written in 2001 [1:03] these ideas had labels [1:05] but i used to get in trouble as a [1:07] project manager for speaking to the [1:09] customer and saying why don't we just do [1:10] a smaller piece of work [1:12] and then look at the results [1:14] learn from that and then decide what to [1:16] do next [1:17] well back then we were doing waterfall [1:20] we were doing long plan projects you [1:22] didn't deviate from the plan and so i'd [1:24] get in trouble so i went from this [1:27] project manager to [1:30] actually up through my career i was a vp [1:33] of operations [1:35] when i decided as a vp of operations [1:38] a senior leader i decided to be a scrum [1:41] master [1:43] because [1:44] we were doing that was the first [1:46] identification i was able to make it [1:48] resonated with me [1:50] how to actually deliver [1:53] in a way that was going to work so i [1:55] became a scrub master i really took a [1:57] hit in my professional career became a [1:59] scrum master well then that that evolved [2:01] into agile coach and enterprise coach [2:03] and transformational coach [2:04] and then six seven years ago as i spoke [2:07] to before [2:08] i realized we're getting limited results [2:10] so again [2:12] i stepped back from my career and [2:14] re-studied what it is what are we [2:16] missing and now i've created this [2:18] program [2:19] so you're talking about 35 years of [2:21] software [2:23] but i have been a project manager to [2:25] scrum master to agile coach to [2:27] enterprise coach to transformational [2:29] coach [2:30] forget all that [2:32] i'm an agile leader [2:34] and that's what i believe should be in [2:36] an organization is true agile leaders [2:39] you [2:40] post on leadership you post on agile [2:42] leadership transformation [2:45] recent post is [2:46] something that you are organizing i [2:49] believe january 22nd so that is the [2:53] lead [2:55] um [2:55] [Music] [2:56] program there uh it's actually it's a in [2:59] the lead it's a [3:02] so the lead lead stands for leaders [3:04] executive agile debrief [3:06] and so i have been doing uh [3:09] transformational coaching agile coaching [3:11] for over 20 years [3:13] uh and as you can see possibly you [3:15] mentioned you're in the agile leaders [3:17] group on linkedin [3:19] and i think this uh what i'm doing now [3:22] is i've discovered [3:23] uh that through my experience that so [3:26] many agile transformations are really [3:28] not reaching their potential [3:30] and literally just as part of my uh [3:33] growth journey [3:34] maybe this revelation was seven years [3:37] ago [3:38] uh i have been putting together for the [3:40] last six years when i what i call the [3:42] leader's journey [3:43] and and this has led to a couple of [3:46] products being the leader's journey [3:48] agile program [3:50] and then within that the the equipping [3:52] part of that is the [3:54] um the agile leaders mastermind [3:57] and the agile i'm sorry the as a [3:59] bootcamp mastermind so those two are [4:02] courses [4:04] and because they're masterminds they you [4:06] we do the course and then that puts you [4:08] into a year's coaching calls [4:11] with me and with [4:14] fellow agile leaders if you will that [4:16] are also in those masterminds [4:19] to share their experiences [4:21] and so through that we're gaining a lot [4:24] of [4:25] knowledge through through live [4:27] experience [4:28] about what is [4:31] uh keeping these agile transformations [4:34] from reaching a potential [4:36] okay one of the big realizations [4:39] uh and and that that starts with [4:41] awareness [4:42] so the the program actually goes from [4:44] awareness to equipping to competency [4:48] and so the awareness part is the lead [4:51] leaders executive agile debrief so we [4:54] get on the call i do this once a month [4:55] it's a free call [4:57] okay this month it's january 22nd [5:00] and it's that's always a saturday it's [5:03] uh u.s time texas time so it's central [5:06] time interesting [5:08] and that's 9 a.m to 11 a.m central time [5:11] who should join [5:13] this monthly call what uh what type of [5:16] role what type of [5:18] influence [5:21] i love it [5:22] that's a great question and i thank you [5:24] for that because i mean the the answer [5:27] is [5:28] anyone that's actually engaged or [5:30] participating in an agile transformation [5:33] now the bigger program transcends agile [5:35] it's just an organization that needs the [5:37] leadership cultural change [5:40] but does this lead [5:42] yes okay the lead lead i will ask you [5:45] about that too [5:47] okay [5:48] so but let me answer to get this first [5:50] one out the lead is a leader's executive [5:52] agile debrief it's about an agile [5:54] organization so my answer is anyone that [5:57] is participating in any level [6:00] so i have lots of people let's say scrum [6:02] masters say well i'm not a leader well [6:04] they're thinking about an organizational [6:06] leader but but i here's what i want to [6:08] say you have a team [6:10] we're all leaders right if leadership is [6:12] influenced you have influence in [6:14] somebody's life [6:15] what you're doing every day is [6:17] influential to someone [6:19] now it may be a good influence or a bad [6:21] influence but we all are we're leading [6:23] somebody [6:25] uh and so [6:27] the the answer is anybody if from scrum [6:30] master [6:32] middle management upper management you [6:34] know so [6:36] and and all over the world and then [6:37] that's part of why the conversation is [6:39] good is because we have a perspective [6:41] from a cio [6:42] we have a perspective from a director or [6:45] perspective from a scrum master [6:49] okay the same question for the the [6:51] mastermind group so the next level then [6:54] if you were so now [6:56] part of that conversation is well you [6:58] know what i need to learn is more about [7:00] the team stuff and so there is the [7:04] the agile bootcamp mastermind [7:07] which is about the agile practices right [7:09] it's the training it's a it's a [7:12] five course series [7:14] and these are both both of these [7:16] masterminds you take the course online [7:18] self-paced and you get in the calls [7:21] okay [7:22] so the agile boot camp mastermind is [7:25] about the practices [7:27] okay the the agile leaders mastermind is [7:30] about the culture and about the [7:32] leadership okay now that one includes [7:36] the boot camp mastermind because if [7:38] you're a manager or director and you're [7:40] you're talking about you know how you [7:42] can lead teams well you need to know [7:43] what the teams are doing [7:45] so you also take [7:47] the boot camp mastermind so that you [7:49] know what a daily stand-up is and you [7:51] know what [7:52] what what the practices are [7:54] so many of these managers you know [7:57] they're trying to [7:59] push work to the teams but they don't [8:01] know what the teams are doing they don't [8:02] understand [8:04] they also need to so the the leaders the [8:07] agile leaders mastermind includes the [8:09] boot camp [8:11] okay [8:12] cool [8:13] thank you if you just take the boot camp [8:15] let's say you're a scrum master and you [8:17] want to just have a way better [8:19] understanding of scrum or kanban or or [8:22] the practices themselves [8:24] then then that would then [8:26] say to you we'll take the the the agile [8:29] boot camp for the learn better learn the [8:32] practices [8:33] and then that way then you're it's a [8:35] mastermind then you take the course the [8:37] five course series online self-paced and [8:39] you just get on the tuesday calls right [8:42] the thursday calls are for the agile [8:45] leaders [8:46] and of course then the agile leaders [8:48] you can get on both calls tuesday and [8:50] thursday because when you want to learn [8:52] more about the practices you get on the [8:54] tuesday calls if you've got a question [8:55] about [8:56] why are my teams doing this backlog [8:58] refinement thing what is that [9:00] what's the real truly the true goal of [9:03] that [9:04] you know you get on the tuesday calls [9:05] and we'll talk about that got it and uh [9:08] um [9:10] would you like to share the prices of [9:12] this uh these program with with the [9:15] caveat that you know prices are subject [9:17] to change and right now [9:20] right now what is this january 13 [9:24] 2022 it's the cheapest [9:27] that it's ever been or probably ever [9:29] will be [9:31] because as this grows of course then the [9:33] perceived value grows [9:35] when you compare this like getting on a [9:38] call with coaches twice a week what is [9:41] what is that [9:42] worth you know i mean coaches are [9:44] expensive right so they you have this [9:46] ongoing twice a week bring your problems [9:48] we'll solve them together [9:50] that's amazing [9:52] the agile leaders mastermind [9:54] right now [9:55] is twenty four hundred dollars [9:58] for a year [9:59] for the whole year right and you get [10:02] with that you're getting the the uh [10:05] the on the online agile leaders course [10:08] so if you go to leadersfactor.com it'll [10:11] get you started on this you can look at [10:12] the course curriculum there's i mean we [10:15] go through communication awareness we go [10:17] through what is really agile leadership [10:20] there's a lot of great [10:23] chapters in that course it's a very very [10:25] powerful course [10:28] so you get that course plus your [10:30] thursday call as a bonus for that twenty [10:33] four hundred dollars you're also right [10:34] now getting the the uh as a bootcamp [10:38] mastermind [10:40] which is a five course series [10:43] around the practices and the tuesday [10:46] calls so you're getting both masterminds [10:49] and the tuesday and twice weekly calls [10:52] right coaches for 2 400 [10:57] now if you just want to take the agile [10:58] boot camp mastermind and really learn [11:01] about the practices and get on the [11:02] tuesday calls for a year that's fourteen [11:05] hundred dollars if you buy that [11:06] separately [11:08] thank you thank you for sharing that [11:10] information one of the things i really [11:12] treasure i really enjoy and cherish [11:14] about this program [11:16] is that on these weekly calls and in the [11:19] community [11:20] are people from all over the world [11:22] and it just amazes me how we have the [11:25] same issues going on in organizations in [11:28] egypt in in [11:30] in europe and the united states i mean [11:33] we're all dealing with the same thing [11:35] and it's it's it's an evolution betw [11:37] from what i call it this part of this [11:39] journey is what i call the evolution [11:40] from an autocratic management culture of [11:44] authority [11:45] to a leadership culture of influence and [11:48] innovation now think about that [11:51] autocratic management culture of [11:53] authority [11:54] that's a lot of our organizations now [11:56] right we're doing top-down we're working [11:58] from authority we're we're doing kind of [12:00] level one leadership which is positional [12:03] leadership in other words i i have a [12:05] title i'm the boss so you listen to me [12:07] because i'm the boss [12:09] okay it's authority driven it's [12:11] directive it's do what you're told [12:14] and that is not conducive as a culture [12:18] to an innovative agile organization [12:21] where we're asking people to be [12:23] innovative so that means we have to stop [12:25] and listen to them listen to their ideas [12:29] we need a less directive a less process [12:32] driven culture [12:33] and this is the first [12:36] issue that we come up with the first [12:38] constraint to a successful agile [12:40] organization is this directive culture [12:44] because it is you know we're teaching [12:46] the teams to you know as agile practices [12:50] we're teaching the teams in scrum and [12:51] kanban to [12:53] to pull in the highest value work yet [12:57] above that in the middle tier of the [12:58] organization [13:00] the work is being driven by a lot of [13:02] different [13:03] um [13:04] agenda bias [13:08] directive [13:09] is it this is the mentality that's [13:11] pushing the work right it's it's the [13:13] work one that's got the budget [13:15] it's the work too that has the political [13:18] or agenda driven bias [13:21] instead of actually the work that is the [13:23] innovative work that's the highest value [13:25] work that will give value back to the [13:27] company and so on so in a lot of cases [13:29] we're not even doing the right work [13:31] so we start to put constraints on the [13:34] team's ability [13:36] to actually fulfill the [13:39] the desire and the potential of the [13:41] agile practices you know as a coach i've [13:43] been listening to agile transformation [13:45] conversations both at the middle level [13:47] the top tier [13:48] of the organization and at best those [13:51] conversations are about the practices [13:53] they're about [13:54] process they're about how we get work [13:56] done they're about [13:58] kanban as you call it and scrum and so [14:01] on so that's what i mean by the [14:03] practices that's that's kind of a [14:05] process level [14:07] uh what i'm [14:09] doing is transcending into an agile [14:12] organization not just a transformation [14:14] so a cultural evolution [14:18] from this authority type directive [14:20] culture [14:22] where the where the the managers and the [14:24] directors are more engaged if you will [14:28] as an organizational change as opposed [14:30] to a process change led by [14:32] external coaches i think that's one of [14:35] the issues [14:36] what we're touching on here is [14:38] we have five key things that we're going [14:40] to talk about in this debrief okay uh [14:43] and so that's why you know i continued [14:45] to be excited about you coming to this [14:47] debrief this is a conversation where i [14:50] just leave the debrief if you will i [14:52] facilitate the conversation between [14:54] yourself and other [14:56] organization leaders managers and [14:57] directors hopefully some top tier middle [15:00] tier and even the team level where we [15:02] get an opinion from everybody that says [15:05] are we a transformation or are we an [15:07] organization [15:08] are we directive or are we connected [15:11] uh are we you know just working with [15:14] process or are we working with people [15:18] um [15:19] are we [15:21] so that's what the conversation is about [15:23] uh one of the one of the parts of that [15:25] conversation that i really enjoy is this [15:27] outsourcing [15:29] versus ownership [15:31] because there's a cultural part of most [15:34] of these transformations it's being led [15:36] by outsourced coaches right those [15:39] coaches come in if i'm a manager i'm a [15:42] director [15:44] i often a lot of times i i s i stand and [15:47] i say you know in a leadership group and [15:50] say who owns the transformation and most [15:52] of the time the truth is [15:54] the people there managers directors vps [15:57] they think the coaches on the [15:58] transformation [16:00] and so they're that tells me immediately [16:02] that they're not as engaged right [16:04] they're not and when you're when they're [16:06] not engaged and they're not responsible [16:09] and so they're not really taking [16:10] ownership [16:11] and so what part of this transformation [16:14] that i'm talking about in this program [16:16] is is transcending from [16:19] this outsourcing of coaches to an [16:21] internal ownership of [16:23] an organizational change [16:26] see the difference between an outsourced [16:28] transformation process [16:30] and an organizational ownership [16:33] of organizational change that there's [16:35] two very different things and [16:38] the last five years uh i've put together [16:40] this program [16:42] uh that goes from awareness which is the [16:44] lead that debrief is the awareness part [16:47] the leaders executive agile debrief is [16:48] the awareness part [16:50] after that those that [16:53] have a new awareness at the end of that [16:55] exercise into that debrief [16:58] then there is the mastermind [17:00] for [17:02] the agile leader see what i want to [17:04] create isn't agile coaches [17:06] transformation coaches [17:09] enterprise coaches that are external [17:12] i want to create [17:14] agile leaders [17:16] that are in your organization your [17:18] managers and directors become equipped [17:22] to lead an agile [17:23] organization [17:25] instead of coaches [17:27] that would come in and then go on [17:30] yeah and and i just finished a pilot [17:32] with with a uh a fortune 50 company [17:36] and and i got with the cio they came to [17:38] the lead the executive debrief loved [17:41] those thoughts [17:42] and said let's do this so the the [17:45] program there's a short program [17:48] we did this in in uh two four-month [17:50] blocks [17:51] so they took just four of their [17:55] two managers and two directors [17:57] and put them through the uh the agile [17:59] leaders mastermind [18:01] so they got the equipping they got the [18:03] training and they got to be on the [18:06] weekly coaching calls [18:08] and so those four guys [18:10] stood up one team and this was this was [18:13] the recommendation of the of the pilot [18:15] program [18:16] they stood up one team [18:18] and they [18:20] were the were the pro master and the [18:22] product owner if you will those managers [18:25] and those vps the vps were at that [18:27] middle tier and they became the product [18:29] owners and so in other words they were [18:31] able to guide [18:32] the kind of the program level the work [18:34] that was coming to that team [18:37] they were able to guide that the [18:38] managers were able to break that down [18:41] and and give that to the team [18:43] and the team then created stories and [18:46] and so on so [18:47] nice it was hugely [18:49] successful [18:51] to have those four now [18:53] so-called certified agile leaders [18:56] instead of coaches [18:58] yeah and they created a team well that [19:00] was so successful the cio said [19:03] do that again [19:05] so they did i think [19:07] there was four they did eight more [19:10] managers and directors into the agile [19:13] leaders mastermind they became certified [19:15] agile leaders and they stood up three [19:18] more teams no four more teams [19:20] no i was right three more teams because [19:22] we had a total of four they stood up [19:24] three more teams well [19:27] again [19:28] those they so you ended up now with 14 [19:32] internal uh certified agile leaders [19:35] right [19:36] if you think about that then they had [19:38] the same salary that but now [19:40] they were [19:42] leaders in the middle and upper tier [19:44] they were engaged with what the team was [19:46] doing and so it ended up being a more of [19:48] an organizational cultural change as [19:51] opposed to just [19:53] if they had [19:56] 14 external coaches doing this right [20:00] right right so coaches are like 200 [20:03] 250 000 a year four or five coaches for [20:07] a million bucks [20:08] yep [20:09] so five they had 14 now they have 14 [20:13] agile leaders at the same salary they [20:15] are always happy [20:17] so [20:17] now they are equipped to lead the the [20:20] agile organization instead of [20:22] this three million dollars worth of [20:24] coaches [20:25] leading just an agile transformation [20:27] just changing the way they worked on [20:29] i tell you what it's huge [20:32] it was huge not only did they save you [20:34] know seven million dollars [20:37] but they they have internal engagement [20:40] so they move from outsourcing coaches [20:43] to an internal ownership [20:47] but more importantly the culture changed [20:50] not just the practices [20:54] and it's huge [20:56] it's absolutely huge [20:59] you should create a case of study on [21:01] this [21:02] i am i am it just finished working on it [21:05] it finished like between [21:07] thanksgiving and christmas [21:09] and so as you know that's a difficult [21:11] time to get anything done [21:13] and so the you know the end of the year [21:15] wrap that up and and so i kind of have [21:17] the outline published [21:19] um but [21:21] you know and of course i'm not going to [21:22] go to we're going to go speak to results [21:25] in a case study not too much of the [21:26] detail about [21:28] how it was done because we obviously [21:30] want you to get in the program [21:32] but that's the gist is you become you [21:34] get in this agile leader's mastermind [21:36] you create with your managers and [21:38] directors you create this internal [21:40] ownership [21:42] with this mastermind program now it's [21:44] it's and that's where the equipping is [21:47] and then i say there's competency which [21:50] is step three of the program competency [21:52] is that you stay in the community [21:56] and you have twice weekly phone calls [21:59] uh their their conference calls like [22:01] this [22:02] with [22:03] me and i continue to coach [22:06] as well as you have [22:08] other agile leaders like yourself on the [22:11] program and so they're sharing their [22:13] experience well here's what's going on [22:15] with me today i had this problem [22:17] well you have you have x many other [22:19] coaches on [22:20] agile leaders on there in other words [22:22] managers and directors that are going [22:23] through the same thing they share their [22:25] experience we're all learning together [22:27] and so it's a very growing environment [22:30] it's a learning community [22:31] of shared experience and it's that [22:35] aspect is powerful so again you're [22:37] coaching each other through live [22:39] experience [22:41] instead of having [22:44] agile expensive agile coaches external [22:47] telling you what you should be doing [22:50] thank you for sharing all that um and [22:53] and the the case study that you were [22:55] sharing [22:56] they [22:58] did you have a custom program for them [22:59] or they just joined this uh a mastermind [23:02] program [23:04] uh as i say the cio came to lead the the [23:08] what you're coming to on the 22nd they [23:10] do this [23:11] it's free it's once a month okay and [23:14] so he heard these five reasons you know [23:18] five differences in in leading in an [23:20] agile organization in a natural [23:22] transformation [23:23] he heard he heard these five differences [23:25] and said boy that's that's you know that [23:28] resonated with him so they [23:30] uh he engaged into the program he [23:34] engaged four two directors two managers [23:37] into becoming [23:39] agile leaders yeah so step one is [23:41] awareness that's why i say the program [23:43] goes from awareness that's the debrief [23:45] that leaders is executed as a debrief to [23:47] equipping [23:48] that's the masterminds [23:50] and then [23:52] to competency which means you you you [23:54] gain competency because as we know [23:57] trainings just training is not enough [23:59] you have to live it and so you're in the [24:01] community for a year [24:05] and so now his 14 you know directors and [24:07] managers are in the community [24:10] and they're learning every week by [24:12] getting on the calls and sharing their [24:13] experience [24:15] which is a lot like having an internal [24:17] coach in-house [24:19] right [24:20] but instead you get on the call and you [24:22] have not just a coach not just like me [24:25] you have other leaders that are sharing [24:28] the same problems and you know there's a [24:30] one big difference that i can feel and [24:32] sense the way you're saying that when [24:34] you have the coaches it's more like a [24:36] push of the information that they are [24:38] coming here and then pushing information [24:40] to you in this traversation is more like [24:43] a pulling of the information like i'm [24:45] here give me information this is the [24:48] situation and then what's the answer [24:50] what's the discussion around that [24:53] absolutely right yeah i mean and it also [24:56] the the [24:58] the power of shared experience [25:01] right it's just not me sharing my [25:03] authority this is the way to do it [25:06] the conversations are well i tried this [25:08] and it worked and i tried this and it [25:09] didn't [25:11] i tried this and it worked better what [25:13] else could we do differently [25:15] to achieve this goal so those [25:17] conversations are much more [25:20] fulfilled with growth as opposed to just [25:23] somebody telling you what to do we're [25:25] moving which is the agile mindset right [25:27] we're moving away from that authority [25:29] driven i just i get excited i'm really [25:31] passionate about this i've been working [25:32] on this for for six years [25:35] and finally found a formula and we had [25:38] it [25:40] it's it's an exciting [25:42] yet sad statement for a guy like me to [25:45] say i've been i've been agile coaching [25:48] transformations for 20 plus years and i [25:50] finally [25:52] after 20 years i finally got one that [25:54] actually worked [25:56] that's i mean to take 20 years to have [25:58] success is like [26:00] it's a [26:01] sad statement [26:04] but [26:05] and right now we hear all over the world [26:07] everywhere [26:09] well capital one so and so on if anybody [26:12] you know actually listens to this [26:13] quartering it is from capital one you [26:15] could probably verify what i'm saying [26:17] but it's not i'm not picking on capital [26:18] one [26:19] i'm just referencing to the statements i [26:22] hear in our marketplace being agile [26:24] marketplace [26:25] that so-and-so company is trying yet [26:28] their fourth transformation their fifth [26:30] transformation or their sixth attempt to [26:33] transform transform to an agile [26:36] geez [26:38] that's what got me i started doing just [26:41] a little story i started doing a i got [26:44] so frustrated back [26:45] like i say seven years ago with this [26:48] limited results [26:50] if you will [26:52] i'd put a year year and a half two years [26:54] into an organization and get limited [26:56] results because the teams were doing [26:58] great but middle management [27:01] was actually now hindering the teams [27:03] right keeping them from being as as [27:06] innovative as they could be [27:08] and the culture of the organization was [27:12] hindering [27:13] the teams that's very frustrating and [27:16] that's you know we put as coaches we put [27:17] a year and a half two years into a [27:19] company that's what you get [27:20] uh the teams are now being bottlenecked [27:23] by middle by the middle tier [27:26] that became so frustrating i started [27:28] giving a talk and i gave this so i [27:30] started on a national tour i started [27:32] giving this talk called culture versus [27:34] process [27:36] and i was speaking to this problem [27:37] that's seven years ago [27:40] afterwards [27:42] c-suite vps managers directors would all [27:45] come and say great awareness [27:48] what do we do and so they're using an [27:50] analytical mind and they want to know [27:51] what are the six what are the steps we [27:54] can take [27:55] to solve this [27:56] well of course it's a cultural problem [27:58] so you can't solve it with steps you [27:59] really have to you solve cultural issues [28:02] with values [28:04] and so that's what we have the four [28:06] values of the leader's journey [28:08] um and that's the top level of this [28:11] this program [28:12] the leader's journey actually changing [28:15] the culture [28:17] so but it struck me i didn't have an [28:19] answer i didn't have steps you take to [28:21] change a culture [28:23] i didn't know the answer [28:25] so i literally took a year sabbatical [28:28] from being a coach [28:29] and [28:30] really started to think into what's the [28:33] problem [28:35] where what is really at the root of this [28:38] you know root cause analysis what's [28:40] going on and i and i discovered it's [28:42] culture it's leadership it's the [28:44] leadership [28:45] it's a leadership issue and the way we [28:47] are leading this directive type [28:51] controlling uh [28:53] authority driven leadership in a company [28:56] it hinders the the agile practices from [28:59] being successful [29:01] and so i you know made a professional [29:04] change to become better equipped as in [29:07] leadership training became a john [29:09] maxwell certified [29:11] leadership coach [29:13] and then combined that [29:15] as that was six years ago this was my [29:17] answer to you know that [29:19] that speaking tour where i didn't have [29:21] the answer every time i gave that talk [29:24] it was like what's the answer i don't [29:26] know [29:27] it was embarrassing so i took a [29:29] sabbatical and i figured it out so you [29:31] didn't do anything other than i mean you [29:34] you completely cut off for one year [29:37] i did i took my savings and i studied [29:41] for a year [29:42] every day i was thinking into and [29:45] creating [29:46] um practices that so so i have these [29:50] these techniques now that i've brought [29:51] to this program [29:53] uh called uh you have a voice or six [29:56] steps of a leader's conversation in [29:57] other words how do you have a [29:58] conversation as a leader [30:00] without influencing someone [30:03] letting and encouraging them to think [30:05] into their own result and it's actually [30:07] hard to have a conversation [30:09] to where you don't influence but you [30:12] you allow and encourage people to think [30:14] into their own results so i created [30:16] these these different facilitation [30:18] techniques these different so i spent a [30:20] year focused on this uh the john maxwell [30:25] leadership [30:27] certification is is a lot of work right [30:30] and so that's a good thing [30:32] i got a lot of experience and was [30:34] blessed to work and i'm still working [30:36] i'm still paying john an incredible [30:38] amount of money to be my mentor [30:41] and so having that [30:45] that type of mentor i mean as far as i'm [30:48] i believe and i i selected and invested [30:51] in john because i believe john maxwell [30:52] is you know the thought leader the guru [30:54] when it comes to leadership very natural [30:56] leader [30:57] like the one that you can [30:59] kind of connect with from pastor [31:02] to [31:03] um a [31:04] speaker and and a mentor and leader you [31:08] can kind of [31:09] see that this person is coming from [31:12] your day-to-day life [31:14] yes and his approach is like that [31:17] absolutely the 21 irrefutable laws of [31:20] leadership that john started with [31:22] actually he has it's all and you [31:25] mentioned pastor so i'm going to go [31:26] ahead and and speak to that because i'm [31:29] a man of faith [31:31] and so [31:33] here's a thought that i had which was [31:35] really really powerful for me [31:37] 21 irrefutable laws of leadership john [31:40] actually takes those back he got those [31:42] from scripture [31:43] he got those from jesus and so i'll [31:47] never forget the time john asked me one [31:49] day who and who's the most influential [31:53] person that ever walked this earth [31:56] and it was jesus right but he and he [31:58] never he didn't go around telling people [32:00] what to do he was influential [32:03] right [32:04] he he spoke in parables because he was [32:07] working on [32:09] allowing and encouraging people to think [32:11] into their own results instead of [32:13] telling them what to do [32:17] you look at the way he spoke and he [32:18] spoke in parables he made you think [32:21] and make decisions for yourself well [32:23] that's what coaching is [32:25] coaching isn't directive yep uh coaching [32:29] and and leadership is influence [32:32] and and he had just the 32 years that he [32:35] was here his influence [32:38] still [32:40] permeates our world he the the book that [32:42] he wrote so to speak right the bible [32:46] um [32:48] we can't get rid of that book people [32:50] have tried through crusades to get rid [32:52] of that book and it's still the the most [32:54] popular book in the world uh he had very [32:57] very powerful influence he was in my [33:00] opinion the best coach that ever lived [33:03] and and that's john connected that for [33:05] me and and i really that resonated with [33:08] me [33:10] and and that's what i love about this [33:12] and that's why i say the leaders journey [33:14] itself the leaders journey program [33:16] transcends agile this is this is the way [33:19] we think on a daily basis about [33:22] adding value to people the the value [33:25] statement [33:26] of the leader's journey [33:29] is this to [33:30] to have increased effectiveness and [33:32] greater influence you must add value to [33:35] others [33:36] to add value to others [33:38] you must connect with them [33:40] and to connect with them you must move [33:42] from me to we [33:44] so the four values of the leader's [33:46] journey this is the [33:48] life-changing journey that transcends [33:50] these agile organizations work and it is [33:52] for us personally in our families in our [33:55] lives [33:56] and in any organization [33:59] is the first move from italy guy number [34:02] one [34:03] value number two [34:05] is to connect with others [34:08] value number three is to add value to [34:11] others [34:12] when you move from me to we you truly [34:14] care about others [34:16] and you connect with them you put in the [34:18] effort you put in the energy to connect [34:21] and truly get to know who they are [34:23] then you can start to add value to them [34:26] when you do [34:27] begin to add value to them [34:29] you will be i promise i guarantee you'll [34:33] no longer be leading from authority [34:36] you'll be leading from influence [34:39] that's so powerful and you'll be more [34:41] effective that is that is the four [34:43] values of the leader's journey that [34:45] transcends that's the top of this [34:46] program [34:49] that's so powerful quick question when [34:51] you from the vp of operation to be to [34:54] scrum master how when was that how how [34:57] long ago [34:58] oh boy if you look back on my resume i [35:01] was at the company called advanced [35:03] business link i was a the vp of [35:05] operations for advanced business life so [35:07] i'll bet you that was [35:10] 25 years ago 20 years ago [35:13] so i have a lot of people actually say [35:15] to me well wait a minute scrum wasn't [35:17] even around 20 years ago yes it was [35:19] uh the agile manifesto was written in [35:22] 2001 which brought awareness to agile [35:25] but xp practices and scrum talked to you [35:28] know jeff sutherland you talked to ken [35:30] schwaber scrum was around [35:33] a good 20 almost 27 years ago now you [35:36] know so yep it was around uh [35:39] i was there i was in the first [35:41] this is also fun when i went from vp of [35:44] operations [35:45] to scrum master it's because this new [35:50] nobody under gets it [35:52] this brand new [35:53] class this brand new certification was [35:56] put on by at the time it was a company [35:58] called rally [35:59] in boulder colorado [36:02] right which ended up being the agile [36:04] agile alliance [36:07] the [36:08] it was a scrum master certification [36:11] i remember i traveled to boulder [36:13] colorado and at the time i was young [36:15] enough my dad said to me what you're [36:17] you're giving up on an executive job and [36:19] becoming what and i'll never forget this [36:21] you said you're giving up an executive [36:23] job and becoming a scum master [36:28] it was hilarious [36:30] uh and i said look it's the new project [36:32] manager and and of course he said well [36:34] you were a project manager 15 years ago [36:36] 10 years ago right [36:38] and and you're going back there and said [36:39] no it's different this is this is [36:41] different this is i this is [36:44] a way i'm a people person this is a way [36:47] to get work done [36:49] with innovation and allowing people to [36:51] think into what they're doing i just had [36:53] to do it so i was in [36:55] the first scrum master certification at [36:58] rally dev [37:00] 25 years ago [37:02] taught by gene tabaka who has [37:04] you know uh [37:06] god bless her she's she's passed on at [37:09] this point [37:10] but gene tobaga is a name if you look at [37:12] the history of scrum and all that gene [37:14] tobago was was the teacher [37:16] uh the facilitator of this course i was [37:18] in one of the very first scrum master [37:20] certification courses [37:22] way back [37:24] way back [37:25] and it was it was a great transition [37:27] i've never regretted it because it [37:29] wasn't about the money it's about it's [37:31] about people right it's about [37:33] what i now can label i didn't have [37:35] labels for these things but it's about [37:37] adding value to people [37:39] so i was able to correlate to your story [37:42] that i used to be proud [37:45] of my ability and a skill to run a year [37:50] and a half long project [37:52] and deliver it on time to the day [37:56] and and for example when we built our [37:58] intranet [38:00] for in company-wide internet for 80 000 [38:03] people [38:04] we we have the full timeline for [38:08] discovery development training rollout [38:11] implementation content build and we [38:14] deliver that for [38:16] in one and a half year [38:18] now [38:19] now [38:20] when i started this [38:22] youtube podcast program [38:26] all i did all i have is a big vision [38:29] that why i am doing this and who is my [38:33] audience [38:34] just two things which gonna last for [38:37] long [38:39] this is the vision part right who is my [38:41] audience [38:42] but when i'm trying to program what my [38:46] goals are [38:47] i'm not thinking beyond first quarter so [38:50] i have plans for january february march [38:53] but i'm not thinking beyond that [38:55] sure i'm just gonna say what i will see [38:58] and based on the result based on what i [39:00] will like and what i what audience [39:04] and i think in this three month [39:06] discovery will tell me what i should do [39:09] next [39:10] versus planning a year [39:13] no i love [39:14] what you're doing is actually an agile [39:16] mindset [39:17] what you're doing is iterative [39:20] so a lot of people think about i mean [39:22] there's a big difference between what [39:23] people think [39:25] when they're iterating they're actually [39:27] doing incremental so in other words [39:29] they've taken something and jumped it up [39:31] into five pieces and it's incremental [39:33] but they're staying on the same plan [39:35] what you're doing is iterative iterative [39:37] means you do a few months and then you [39:39] stop and reflect on on how it went [39:43] reflect on what you've learned [39:45] reflect on what worked and what didn't [39:48] work [39:49] from that [39:50] you decide what to do next [39:53] that's an agile mindset that's what our [39:56] organizations need to do [39:58] that's what we if we get too far out [40:00] just like a scrum team doesn't want to [40:01] get sprint plans out more than like [40:04] three three three sprints [40:07] at the program level the the [40:09] organizational [40:11] feature roadmap you don't want to get [40:12] out more than two or three quarters [40:15] because the market changed let me ask [40:17] you a question and this is where you [40:18] learned this when you were doing these [40:20] waterfall year and a half projects that [40:22] you described [40:23] and you were proud [40:25] to do a year and a half project and get [40:27] it done yeah [40:29] the result that you got [40:31] was it truly what the customer needed at [40:35] the time or is it what they needed a [40:37] year and a half ago [40:38] here's the big big thing [40:40] i have to fight not fight but a struggle [40:44] for [40:46] my end user internal end users [40:49] to be to use the product that we have [40:51] just delivered [40:53] and we struggle that how many people are [40:55] using and how many people are not aware [40:58] that this [40:59] awesome product is delivering to them [41:03] all information at one place so we [41:06] struggled that [41:09] that um [41:10] we we were proud of the delivery but we [41:13] was not proud of the usage of that [41:16] product by the end users [41:19] i mean that's what was wrong with with [41:21] uh waterfall back in the day and then [41:23] when i say that that time of my career i [41:26] used to get in trouble because i used to [41:27] say [41:28] yay we're celebrating i mean and i [41:30] remember microsoft we used big [41:32] celebrations on getting a product done [41:35] but the celebration was that we got it [41:37] done because at that by then everybody [41:40] was either sick of it or [41:42] right but it was it was full of bugs and [41:45] but it was delivered [41:46] yeah [41:47] but we weren't celebrating that it was [41:50] what the customer wanted [41:52] because the customers market changed [41:55] yeah and we stuck to the plan [41:57] by contract [41:59] and so what we delivered [42:01] was no longer appropriate [42:03] 18 months later because the market [42:05] changed [42:06] so we were just celebrating that we were [42:08] done [42:10] we weren't celebrating that the customer [42:11] was happy [42:13] yeah [42:14] now that's the same for you if you do a [42:16] year plan and try to stick to it [42:18] one you know from your experience you [42:20] can't stick to it because things are [42:22] gonna change [42:23] so [42:24] for you having a two three month goal [42:27] getting that done reflecting on that [42:29] then deciding what's the highest value [42:31] thing you should do next that is an [42:33] agile mindset that is the way to do it [42:36] that's [42:37] iterative [42:38] that's what iterative mean iterating [42:40] means and so [42:42] hey i'm going to tell another story i [42:44] the first [42:46] this has been kind of a natural course [42:48] of my life because [42:50] i believe the first agilist [42:53] that i ever met [42:56] was my mother [42:58] when i was 10 years old that would have [43:00] been 1962 [43:04] when i was 10 years old [43:06] and [43:08] i [43:09] as a small child and yeah [43:12] see if you can relate to the story i was [43:14] overwhelmed [43:15] with everything that i was expected to [43:18] do [43:18] i had this i remember having this big [43:21] outcome i was trying to achieve at 10 [43:23] years old and i literally cried and said [43:27] i can't do this it's too much [43:30] i went to my mother you know what she [43:31] said to me she said wait wait [43:34] just do this little bit [43:38] and then bring that result to me [43:42] don't think about the whole big thing [43:44] just do a little bit [43:46] get that right and then bring it to me [43:48] show it to me and when you show me that [43:51] then we'll talk about what to do next [43:54] my mother [43:55] literally said that to me [43:59] and that that's agile [44:00] that's iterative delivery she said just [44:03] do what's not overwhelming do the [44:05] highest value thing she said just do [44:07] this little bit and bring it to me and [44:09] we'll talk about what to do next [44:11] and it worked we talked about what to do [44:14] next i did that we talked about what to [44:15] do next i did that and before i know it [44:19] the nickels added up to a dollar [44:21] right [44:22] the whole thing was done but if i [44:24] thought about the whole big thing [44:26] i was overwhelmed [44:28] that's what she taught me and that's [44:30] that stuck with me i made a career out [44:32] of that [44:37] it makes sense [44:39] that's the agile mindset so for you [44:41] that's my answer you're doing the right [44:42] thing [44:44] few month plan get those goals those [44:46] short term obtainable goals [44:48] and then reflect [44:50] that's what retrospectives are reflect [44:52] on that get feedback [44:54] get feedback from everybody you say you [44:56] know [44:57] x many people frustration not [44:58] participating [45:01] then that's the thing to solve [45:03] get them to participate give you [45:04] feedback you need that feedback that's [45:07] how we grow and that's where now that [45:09] ties into a learning community [45:12] right that ties into what we're doing in [45:14] that community on those weekly calls is [45:16] feedback i tried this it worked i tried [45:18] this it didn't work what else could i do [45:20] what could i do differently to get a [45:21] different outcome [45:23] those conversations are powerful [45:26] my interest truly is and and hopefully [45:29] through this conversation you've heard [45:30] my heart i i'm not [45:34] looking for those i mean you can tell [45:36] those i mean those costs are actually [45:37] pretty low but that's the cost of doing [45:39] business see i mean the other part of [45:41] having a price on these things is people [45:44] do need to invest in themselves in order [45:45] to take it seriously [45:47] i used to do way more stuff for free [45:51] because my interest is adding value but [45:53] truth is when you just give people stuff [45:55] they don't they don't really invest [45:59] and so [46:01] but my heart is to add value to people i [46:04] am living the the four values of the [46:06] leaders journey [46:08] me to we connect add value we just [46:10] connected [46:12] i'd love to find ways to add value to [46:14] you and and hopefully this this will [46:16] and and then [46:18] then we'll be growing together through [46:20] influence not through authority and a [46:22] disclaimer to whoever watching this [46:24] video [46:26] um this is uh this video is not a paid [46:29] promotion i didn't get any money from [46:31] anyone to create this video i saw the [46:34] post that it's a good program so i was [46:37] curious to know more and i have a uh [46:41] open conversation and that's what i'm [46:43] posting i will join that 22nd january [46:47] call because i feel [46:48] it's good and it's going to add value to [46:50] me and i encourage everyone else to join [46:53] that [46:54] thank you very much thank you and thank [46:56] you all that are listening and i hope to [46:58] see you there it's every month so if you [47:00] go to that same link that uh that i'm [47:02] sure you'll provide i will live [47:05] when the 20 seconds over the date will [47:07] be up for the next one so we go from one [47:09] month and i do it every month [47:11] so if you do miss january [47:13] because that's in what it's in nine days [47:16] then you can get in the february one [47:29] you
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