#12 Courtney Schultz: Career Journey, Goal Setting, and Time Management

[0:00] you so much for accepting my request for
[0:02] the interview
[0:03] i try to keep the format really simple
[0:06] ask very basic question especially
[0:08] around the journey and then how you set
[0:10] goals and
[0:12] a message to the audience but in the
[0:15] simple conversation either a person or a
[0:18] situation or a thing come up that change
[0:21] your life and it can inspire other
[0:23] people as well
[0:25] that's what i try to show and i've been
[0:28] reading about you on linkedin and your
[0:30] website and i have an amazing journey
[0:32] you started with event dining manager
[0:35] and then
[0:36] you became a director at prosky and i
[0:39] respect trotsky a lot in terms of the
[0:42] change management i have done their uh
[0:44] change management certification with
[0:46] that take three days of training and
[0:48] then you started your own company two
[0:51] years ago about two years ago
[0:53] yeah um i started my own company um
[0:57] about a year ago and it's been a journey
[0:59] but i also work for a
[1:02] another friend that i know who has
[1:04] started her own company which is a
[1:06] consultancy so i'm doing both at the
[1:09] same time so i'm actually applying
[1:10] change management for a large financial
[1:12] organization while working on building
[1:15] and setting up my own business
[1:17] courtney i've seen your linkedin
[1:19] comments and posts
[1:21] and many of them are around
[1:23] micromanagement
[1:25] and seems like you are one person
[1:27] want to eliminate micro management from
[1:29] the world which is great
[1:32] i have a passion for people managers and
[1:35] i think that everybody deserves to have
[1:37] a good experience at work and i have a
[1:40] lot of focus on shifting the narrative
[1:42] around what it means to be somebody's
[1:43] boss and recognizing the impact that you
[1:46] have on other people when you are
[1:48] responsible for overseeing them at a job
[1:50] and there's a lot of bad habits that
[1:52] managers have um so one of them that
[1:54] i've talked a lot about is micromanaging
[1:56] and how it kind of makes it about you
[1:58] in your position and takes away from
[2:00] your employees and their their ability
[2:02] to do their job effectively
[2:04] definitely and i will share some input
[2:06] from my own insight
[2:08] that how i started my management journey
[2:11] without knowing that i'm
[2:13] micromanaging so i will come to that
[2:16] yeah
[2:17] uh first let's start um with
[2:20] um
[2:20] with i wanted to give you an opportunity
[2:23] to
[2:24] share
[2:25] with the audience or whoever watching
[2:27] this video that what you do what your
[2:29] company does and
[2:30] what you can help these people
[2:33] yeah thank you so my company is focused
[2:35] on supporting primarily new
[2:38] people managers so those who are just
[2:40] entering the space and don't really know
[2:42] how to start oftentimes you're not
[2:45] you're kind of trained i think in most
[2:47] organizations you get a little bit of um
[2:50] you know here's the the goals we need
[2:51] you to drive your people towards or
[2:53] maybe you just need to manage you were
[2:55] the best customer service manager or
[2:57] customer service of representatives so
[2:59] like come in here manage people good
[3:01] luck and that's kind of your
[3:02] introduction into management
[3:04] um sometimes you get like a little
[3:06] course on company policy and hr policy
[3:09] you usually get some videos to watch but
[3:11] nobody really sits you down to say when
[3:14] you enter into the management world
[3:16] you're gonna have some really tough
[3:17] conversations there's going to be times
[3:20] when you have to
[3:22] make a decision between hiring two
[3:24] really great people and let one of them
[3:25] know they didn't get the position or you
[3:27] may have to let somebody go at some
[3:29] point or somebody might lose a loved one
[3:31] while they report to you um or somebody
[3:34] might just struggle with depression and
[3:36] anxiety and put that on your on you know
[3:38] your conversation table but you don't
[3:40] know how to it how to direct them and
[3:42] how to keep them moving forward um so
[3:45] that they can keep doing their job but
[3:46] also not wearing your own self down by
[3:49] taking on the burden of everything for
[3:50] everybody else and so i've created a
[3:53] training um a training course and then
[3:56] some coaching to help individual
[3:57] managers that are just getting started
[3:59] learn how to get comfortable being
[4:01] uncomfortable learn how to develop you
[4:04] know skill sets that we don't talk about
[4:05] too often when we're training managers
[4:07] like how do i show up but empathetically
[4:10] for my people when something tough
[4:11] happens how do i be vulnerable while i'm
[4:14] still trying to establish my own
[4:16] authority to my team
[4:18] how do i be transparent when there's
[4:20] this new information coming at me that i
[4:23] cannot disclose to my people yet how do
[4:26] i manage that transparency or even
[4:28] things like how do i actually do what i
[4:30] said i'm going to do like simple things
[4:33] on how do you structure your calendar
[4:34] and your reminders and things like that
[4:36] to get started effectively building
[4:38] trust and establishing safety with your
[4:41] team so that you can drive high
[4:42] performance for them and for yourself as
[4:44] a manager
[4:46] is it the companies who can hire you or
[4:49] new manager can directly contact you for
[4:52] the last year i've been working
[4:53] primarily with a lot of managers who
[4:55] have kind of been just seeking help and
[4:57] have found me through connections um so
[4:59] it's been a lot of one-on-one um
[5:01] relationships
[5:02] but the goal as i grow is to be able to
[5:05] structure um for organizational
[5:07] engagements but right now it's primarily
[5:10] one-on-one coaching because it's a a
[5:12] solo entrepreneurship right now so it's
[5:14] been nice to kind of be able to have
[5:16] that client time but i hope to get to a
[5:18] space where i can broaden it
[5:21] is that your riding is not only for
[5:23] manager but everybody who work for that
[5:26] manager um you're helping
[5:28] both of them actually
[5:30] absolutely it's for absolutely like i
[5:32] want to coach the managers but it makes
[5:34] a difference in the people that report
[5:35] to them as well but also you know i have
[5:38] really big dreams of helping
[5:39] organizations change the way we select
[5:41] and promote managers as well it's not
[5:44] usually the best in position that makes
[5:46] the best manager but so often that's the
[5:48] growth path for more money
[5:51] or for a better title or whatever it
[5:52] might be and so we get a
[5:55] lot of disconnect between what we need
[5:57] our managers to do what the job actually
[5:59] is and how they actually fulfill it and
[6:01] a lot of that comes i think from
[6:03] the way we select and promote and so i
[6:06] hope to one day have some content on
[6:08] that side but i'm not not as focused
[6:10] there right now
[6:11] your childhood in high school what you
[6:13] wanted to become at that time i had a
[6:16] lot of things i wanted to be i wanted to
[6:18] be an actress for a whole long time but
[6:20] then i kind of got more shy as i got
[6:22] older
[6:24] i wanted to be an architect for a while
[6:25] but learned i wasn't good at math um but
[6:28] somewhere kind of toward the end of my
[6:30] high school career i decided i wanted to
[6:32] run and own and run my own bed and
[6:34] breakfast that's kind of what i had in
[6:36] mind
[6:38] in the back of my head
[6:41] but i also really had this love for
[6:44] people and wanting to help people and so
[6:46] that was also sitting in my mind as i
[6:48] was leaving college and trying to figure
[6:50] out what to do leaving high school
[6:52] trying to figure out what to do in
[6:53] college
[6:54] i wanted to ask you about your career
[6:56] journey from your first job uh the one
[6:59] that we just talked about to where you
[7:01] are now
[7:02] yeah and so my first
[7:04] my very first job i was actually um got
[7:08] thrown into management i was 15 and a
[7:10] friend
[7:11] family friend started a deli in our town
[7:13] and a bunch of me and my friends got to
[7:15] work there and i thought it was so cool
[7:16] to be you know in high school and having
[7:19] a job and
[7:20] quickly kind of at 16 i was on a shift
[7:23] and a manager quit and they're like you
[7:25] guys are competent courtney you're up
[7:26] your shift manager so i kind of got
[7:28] thrown into it even at 16 before i knew
[7:30] i had this passion for people managers
[7:33] and that really set off my work ethic i
[7:35] think and my ability to balance working
[7:38] and being in school it really started
[7:40] early
[7:42] and then i went to the walt disney
[7:43] company so i worked for about eight
[7:45] months at an internship at disney world
[7:48] for a hotel at a restaurant at a hotel
[7:51] actually it was a very intense
[7:53] experience to be honest um a lot of lot
[7:57] of hours a lot of work but it was a lot
[7:59] of fun
[8:00] um
[8:01] from there i managed um and at the bald
[8:04] payton in colorado um i got to do our
[8:07] events and so the restaurant essentially
[8:10] in our events and dining so wedding
[8:12] planning mixed with restaurant
[8:14] management um again another really
[8:17] fast-paced environment
[8:19] i learned really really quickly that
[8:20] wedding planning was not for me um
[8:23] there's a lot of emotions involved in
[8:26] wedding planning that i wasn't quite
[8:27] ready to deal with at that time i think
[8:29] i'd be better suited for it now um but
[8:32] then i was like i'm gonna do something
[8:34] else and so i searched
[8:36] 100 travel in indeed at the time and in
[8:40] my school csu's website colorado state
[8:43] university and all i searched for was
[8:45] 100 travel and i found proside
[8:48] for a training manager position
[8:51] and i got that position in 2011
[8:54] and i got to travel the world quite
[8:57] literally um with the master instructors
[9:00] that work for prosci so
[9:02] they're all former executives from large
[9:04] organizations who taught pro size change
[9:07] management certification and i got to go
[9:10] all over with them and help facilitate
[9:12] this certification so i became extremely
[9:15] well versed and immersed in the world of
[9:17] change management at that time and then
[9:20] i grew my career with prosecute over the
[9:22] next decade there
[9:23] and you
[9:25] left that company as a director
[9:28] yeah i got to be a director and support
[9:32] our global network so i was supporting
[9:34] individuals facilitating change
[9:36] management around the globe
[9:38] as well as overseeing two different
[9:40] teams an entry-level team and a content
[9:42] expert team
[9:43] and i actually had the pleasure of
[9:45] standing up that department with a
[9:47] colleague
[9:48] proside was really small when i started
[9:50] so i think all
[9:52] i don't know 20 of the people in the
[9:54] office essentially when i would go in as
[9:56] a training manager could fit around a
[9:58] board room table and would eat lunch
[9:59] together until now i think there's you
[10:02] know 200 plus individuals with
[10:05] multiple
[10:06] um
[10:07] headquarters around the world so it's
[10:09] grown significantly in the time that i
[10:11] was there and they continue to do so
[10:14] then you started your company well yeah
[10:16] i kind of did them simultaneously when i
[10:18] joined workflow i said um i really am
[10:21] excited to jump in and do some hands-on
[10:23] change management consulting but i let
[10:25] her know you know at the same time i
[10:26] have this passion and i'm building it
[10:28] alongside this work that i'm doing is
[10:30] that okay and it was nothing but support
[10:33] you know absolutely please do that so
[10:35] it's been it's been a balance you know
[10:37] when do i take calls in the morning
[10:39] versus the evening and i've had some
[10:41] interesting hours for my own work while
[10:43] also working um to do change management
[10:46] consulting um and i also have a
[10:48] three-year-old son so it's been a it's
[10:50] been a balancing
[10:52] act but it's been working so far yeah
[10:55] if you want to kind of highlight uh some
[10:57] of the things that worked well for you
[11:01] and created the path for you
[11:03] what worked well to to grow in my career
[11:06] then yeah
[11:07] yeah
[11:07] um
[11:08] i think there's a lot of things i think
[11:10] the very first thing that i learned
[11:12] early was
[11:13] to ask questions i had an unbelievable
[11:16] network in front of me with those master
[11:19] instructors
[11:20] i think a lot of different things
[11:22] worked at prosci i recognized the
[11:24] network that i had in front of me um
[11:27] these retired instructors they're not
[11:29] retired they were full-time instructors
[11:31] but they were retired from the executive
[11:33] positions that they had held so you know
[11:36] executives from companies like the ford
[11:38] motor company the state of california
[11:40] key bank
[11:41] i was traveling with them week in and
[11:43] week out and i was really open to any
[11:46] feedback that they were willing to give
[11:48] me i remember one of the instructors jim
[11:51] the first time i got up in front of the
[11:54] class to share my part of the
[11:56] facilitation i came back to probably 45
[12:00] sticky notes on my little desk and that
[12:02] said you said like 15 times stop
[12:05] scratching your face or you're using
[12:07] your hands way too much and um i took
[12:10] all of that to heart and would practice
[12:12] and every time i worked with him i would
[12:14] see the sticky notes kind of reducing
[12:15] the next time maybe i had you know 15
[12:18] and then 10 and then one day i was like
[12:20] jim there's no more sticky notes for me
[12:22] and you know he'd say you know i'm proud
[12:24] of you for taking my feeding back and i
[12:27] i really took that to heart because i
[12:28] recognized how valuable that feedback
[12:30] was and i think that was a good
[12:32] trajectory
[12:34] for my growth at pro site i like to ask
[12:36] questions i like to get involved
[12:39] and i really
[12:40] think that understanding the business
[12:42] was something that helped me grow i
[12:44] didn't just ask questions related to my
[12:46] role
[12:47] i would say you know i'm not flying
[12:49] anywhere this friday can i come into the
[12:51] office and work with the logistics team
[12:54] or help back with the production team or
[12:56] you know do you
[12:57] my boss do you need any help can i do
[13:00] anything there that opened a lot of
[13:02] doors for me in a lot of different areas
[13:04] so over time i developed a lot of just
[13:07] uh content expertise yes but also
[13:10] operational expertise and the
[13:11] integration of the two
[13:13] um really
[13:15] helped put me in a position where i was
[13:17] able to grow and offer a different kind
[13:20] of benefit to the company for keep
[13:22] promoting me upward
[13:24] you gave some very specific tips that uh
[13:27] how engaged you was how much you wanted
[13:29] to going that extra one mile right extra
[13:32] mile
[13:33] from this job to opening your new
[13:36] own company and impressive how clear you
[13:39] are
[13:40] what you are offering and what you
[13:42] wanted to do and how you will be able to
[13:44] help so where this clarity came from how
[13:47] did you prepare that this is this will
[13:50] be your purpose moving forward
[13:53] it's been a long process i've probably
[13:55] been thinking about it for maybe five
[13:58] years so it's been in my head and i
[14:00] probably just started putting it out
[14:02] there
[14:03] since 2020
[14:05] but i just kind of
[14:07] get these ideas and start to run them by
[14:09] people you know things like have you
[14:11] ever struggled with your manager or do
[14:13] you struggle as a manager what kind of
[14:15] training did you get i just start asking
[14:18] people and then start sharing some of my
[14:20] my thoughts to say you know
[14:22] i feel like a lot of managers don't
[14:25] really need it i feel like they kind of
[14:26] just show up
[14:28] and you know kind of almost avoid their
[14:30] employees or get into micromanaging or
[14:32] are uncomfortable if something personal
[14:34] comes up and i would just kind of start
[14:37] to validate that with people and then
[14:39] that's kind of where management
[14:40] excellence the tagline if you're going
[14:42] to manage you have to mean it came from
[14:45] and so it was a lot of slow progression
[14:47] around things like that
[14:49] but the
[14:50] idea that everybody's got a boss
[14:54] everybody really wants to work for a
[14:55] good boss but a lot of the bosses don't
[14:58] get taught how to be a good boss in the
[15:00] ways that the people are asking was a
[15:03] thread that just kept sticking in my
[15:04] mind and so i just really started
[15:06] writing and started building i at prose
[15:09] i had a lot of experience building out
[15:12] the content i had a lot of opportunities
[15:14] to work with the development team
[15:16] a lot of opportunities just to create
[15:18] they offer some advanced certifications
[15:20] and i got the pleasure to build those
[15:24] with support from the chief innovation
[15:26] officer so i had the experience around
[15:28] building content and i really wanted to
[15:30] just get some of these thoughts out so i
[15:33] just started building and probably the
[15:35] first like four or five iterations made
[15:38] no sense in just where my thoughts just
[15:41] completely blurted out there but i spent
[15:44] time
[15:45] you know as i was thinking about it and
[15:46] as i started putting it out there on
[15:48] linkedin first and then creating a
[15:50] website just asking people if it made
[15:52] sense refining and fixing what wasn't
[15:54] coming across clearly and i'm i'm happy
[15:57] to hear you say it is clear i think the
[15:59] perfectionist in me still thinks that i
[16:01] have a long way to go to get even more
[16:03] clear
[16:05] so courtney um
[16:06] to be able to come to this label career
[16:09] ladder
[16:10] to the director position and also to
[16:13] found in company
[16:14] it
[16:15] cannot be done without a solid goal
[16:18] setting and time management process
[16:20] right so i'm i want to learn more about
[16:24] how
[16:25] how you set your dream goals and how do
[16:27] you manage your time and task
[16:30] it's kind of been all over the place for
[16:31] a long time because i always have so
[16:33] much i wanted to do or achieve but after
[16:36] so i had a son in 2019 i think that my
[16:40] process really shifted so i think
[16:42] i write absolutely everything down i've
[16:45] got my google calendar
[16:47] sometimes feels like down to the minute
[16:49] of the things that go on but i start
[16:50] with okay what are my responsibilities
[16:53] that i have to make sure that my son is
[16:55] completely taken care of and has
[16:57] everything that he needs
[16:59] and then i could dive into you know what
[17:00] are the commitments that i have that are
[17:02] absolutely critical for work well and
[17:04] then what are the things i have that are
[17:06] absolutely critical for myself for
[17:08] management excellence this week and then
[17:10] i kind of start to look at the hours of
[17:12] the day and the reality of how many i
[17:14] have um and prioritize from there in
[17:18] terms of how long do i think something's
[17:19] going to take um
[17:21] my goal setting for management
[17:23] excellence has been a little looser
[17:25] actually than in the past to say
[17:27] i have a lot of big places i want to get
[17:29] to so what is one thing i can do today
[17:33] or this week that's going to help me get
[17:35] to where i want to be in the future and
[17:37] i've been trying to keep that mindset
[17:39] going
[17:40] day after day because you know 90 of the
[17:42] first year of any of the work that i did
[17:45] was you know 4 a.m in the morning until
[17:47] my son woke up at 7 or you know 7 p.m
[17:50] when he went to bed until midnight or
[17:52] 1am and as i was building it out and i
[17:55] think that just grit of this is
[17:57] something i'm doing today that's going
[17:58] to help change where i want to be with
[18:00] him in the future
[18:02] in terms of just creating a little bit
[18:04] more flexibility for myself with him
[18:07] so that was a big motivator for me and
[18:09] then the just genuinely i write it all
[18:12] down and we have it hanging in our
[18:15] kitchen so my husband and i are a team
[18:17] on that so we know what's going on each
[18:19] week and anything that's going on and
[18:21] then i live by alerts if it doesn't
[18:24] alert me on my phone i get a little too
[18:26] overwhelmed and get things mixed up so
[18:28] that's critical
[18:29] for me um but
[18:32] honestly usually once i write it down
[18:34] that's why i still have the physical
[18:35] calendar and it kind of absorbs into my
[18:37] mind and i use the electronic one as the
[18:39] backup to remind me digitally
[18:42] are you using a physical notebook to
[18:45] write all this or your electronic app
[18:48] um everything when i start is physical
[18:51] any like even when i try to write a
[18:52] linkedin post i usually write it down at
[18:55] least to some extent in bullets
[18:56] physically
[18:58] i just
[18:59] i don't know that i've shifted yet i
[19:00] don't know if that's a generational
[19:02] thing i don't know if it's just a
[19:04] preference but i usually write
[19:06] everything down first for some reason
[19:08] that pen to mind connection is still
[19:10] very strong
[19:12] i could give you i'll show you the um i
[19:15] don't know if you can see it
[19:16] but just kind of over here on my wall
[19:19] oh my god
[19:21] um i have a horn
[19:25] it's i for management excellent i know
[19:27] that my a lot of my target market is on
[19:30] instagram or i don't i don't have a tick
[19:32] tock and i don't think i'm gonna go
[19:33] there but i know that they exist on
[19:35] instagram and it's not something i'm
[19:37] super comfortable with so my notes of
[19:38] how do i plan a strategy so i've
[19:40] actually got about
[19:42] 12 days worth of ideas for content on
[19:45] the wall that's kind of how i get
[19:47] started
[19:48] and i have interviewed many people and
[19:50] many of them are
[19:52] actually using notepad
[19:54] uh for their task management this is
[19:57] so amazing yeah i think there's some i
[20:00] have to search for it but i think
[20:01] there's some research that kind of makes
[20:03] that connection of actually right
[20:06] yeah
[20:06] so
[20:07] i don't think i'll ever lose let that go
[20:10] and it's
[20:11] very hard to find your passion and
[20:14] purpose and seems like you are at the
[20:17] level where you know
[20:19] what um what your passion and what the
[20:22] cause that you want to work at
[20:25] yeah
[20:25] i wanted to ask
[20:27] how did you discover that that this is
[20:30] what you will go after
[20:32] for next five years 10 years 20 years
[20:36] stumbled into it i've always wanted to
[20:39] help people and
[20:41] i think that and create an experience
[20:43] for someone
[20:44] that's always been kind of an underlying
[20:46] thread of interest of mine and when i
[20:49] started
[20:50] when i managed when i was 16 i got
[20:52] really good feedback and i was often
[20:54] times kind of surprised
[20:56] by that because there were people you
[20:58] know who were i was overseeing who were
[21:00] 50 or 60 years old and i was 16.
[21:03] and so that was a really interesting
[21:05] experience and i was like oh
[21:07] maybe i'm kind of good at this i don't
[21:09] know and i just kind of let that be and
[21:11] then when i was a wedding planner and i
[21:13] had a team of 35
[21:15] i also got very similar feedback people
[21:17] were saying can i be on your shift
[21:19] versus this other manager shift i'd
[21:20] really like to do that and again it was
[21:22] like oh maybe i'm kind of good at this
[21:24] and i like it and then when i started
[21:26] managing it proside i mean i just was so
[21:30] so engaged with the teams that i had
[21:33] there and i just loved
[21:35] the just energy that we could create for
[21:38] each other i got i learned so much from
[21:40] the people that reported to me and
[21:42] they've shared that they learned for me
[21:43] and it just created this energy of like
[21:45] i really want to come to work today i
[21:48] really want to be here i mean so often
[21:50] we spend more time with our colleagues
[21:52] at work than we get to spend with our
[21:53] own families and
[21:55] that kind of always stuck with me and
[21:57] you know i've had several people who
[21:59] have said you know
[22:00] i really miss reporting to you that was
[22:02] one of like the most fun times i had
[22:04] because i felt like i could learn you
[22:06] know i could be myself i felt like i was
[22:08] contributing really strongly and then it
[22:11] just kept lighting this fire up how do
[22:13] we create these just environments across
[22:16] business you know how do we help people
[22:18] who might not have wanted to become
[22:20] managers
[22:21] build a better connection with their
[22:22] people or people who know it's something
[22:24] they do want to do but have no idea how
[22:26] to get started how do we start to get
[22:28] there and it just that fire when i was
[22:30] like i really like this it's fun it
[22:32] doesn't feel like work i'm thinking
[22:34] about it you know when i'm not you know
[22:36] at either when i was that pro sign or
[22:38] when i'm not doing something that's work
[22:41] i was still thinking about this work i
[22:42] wanted to do and so i was like this is
[22:45] something i really want to just give it
[22:47] a shot and see if i can
[22:49] continue to make a career out of it but
[22:52] i really have a passion as well for um
[22:55] things like keeping more women in the
[22:56] workforce and um
[22:59] you know showing people leadership that
[23:00] might look a little different a little
[23:02] less command and control a little more
[23:05] um just kind of
[23:07] that softer empathetic approach because
[23:09] i never saw that really in in my career
[23:13] and i would be nervous to say i don't
[23:14] think i could get to the executive ranks
[23:17] because i'm not i'm not intense and i'm
[23:19] not overly
[23:21] commanded control and i started to
[23:23] realize well no that's not true there's
[23:25] tons of leaders that look like that how
[23:26] do we just get the visibility out there
[23:29] and how do we just start to help people
[23:30] learn the skills
[23:33] early so that we see more of them show
[23:35] up in all layers of business so there's
[23:38] just a lot of things that boiled into
[23:40] one that kind of
[23:41] let me know this is something i want to
[23:43] keep doing that i'm passionate about
[23:46] that's another very insightful that how
[23:49] you went back and start looking at
[23:52] things um people comments plus
[23:55] what you have done the environment that
[23:57] you have created plus the the gap that
[24:00] we have in the society or the workforce
[24:03] and then and that's how you kind of
[24:05] place yourself that this is
[24:08] where you fit and this is where you your
[24:10] business will be your company will be
[24:13] yeah
[24:14] um we see so many studies too lately
[24:17] coming out you know harvard business
[24:19] review or um the gallup polls that are
[24:22] coming out about you know people leaving
[24:24] the workforce we hear a great
[24:25] resignation all the time
[24:27] but we also hear the number one reason
[24:29] people quit their jobs is because of
[24:30] their managers we hear that consistently
[24:34] and now we're starting to hear
[24:35] consistently the number one skill set
[24:37] that people are asking for is empathy
[24:39] and then you know closely followed by
[24:41] flexibility and i think it just was
[24:43] continuing to point me to
[24:46] these are not new desires of people i
[24:49] think it's just we need to look at a new
[24:51] way to help the people who lead the
[24:52] people
[24:53] show these skills
[24:55] when i became manager for the first time
[24:58] i was a programmer
[25:00] became a technical manager for a
[25:02] programming team and then i it changed
[25:06] again four or five years ago
[25:08] uh from the technical manager to
[25:10] activation manager and and i have a
[25:13] completely different group of people and
[25:15] it happened both the time when i became
[25:17] the manager for the first time
[25:20] um it took me some time to realize that
[25:24] the where i'm
[25:26] can affect more than then leading the
[25:30] team to deliver more
[25:32] even though there was so much my company
[25:34] was offering in terms of the training
[25:37] i still
[25:39] wanted to run with the same pace as i
[25:42] was as a senior programmer or the team
[25:45] leader
[25:46] i became manager and instead of thinking
[25:49] i have to start from scratch i wanted to
[25:51] keep running with the same commands
[25:54] and then what you find that all the new
[25:57] tasks that comes with the manager
[25:59] management you don't have that gut
[26:01] feeling that you have in your previous
[26:04] role
[26:05] and it takes time
[26:06] to gain that gut feeling and it was more
[26:09] prominent when i became the senior
[26:11] manager and i still
[26:14] wanted to continue to run with that same
[26:17] pace and
[26:18] i am a new senior manager there and
[26:21] there is a gap to fill with me being
[26:24] there and
[26:26] i didn't take the pause and i started
[26:30] kind of more on a
[26:33] finding that gut feeling and then
[26:36] being in control you go into the detail
[26:40] and you start thinking
[26:42] what's exactly happening if i can
[26:43] understand this then probably i will
[26:46] develop that gut feeling right in this
[26:48] new role and that's when unknowingly you
[26:51] start micromanaging and your team
[26:54] team can feel it but you cannot you
[26:56] don't you kind of still thinking um that
[27:00] you're trying to to do your job and you
[27:02] i realize that but it's not easy um for
[27:07] um
[27:07] in the beginning and i wanted to give
[27:09] you that perspective that
[27:12] when people become
[27:14] when they roll change sometimes it's not
[27:16] intentional sometimes it's it's they're
[27:19] running with the same phase they don't
[27:20] even realize that they need to take a
[27:22] pause and stop and i'm seeing now
[27:26] new manager in my company where
[27:31] even though my company is providing at
[27:34] least 15 different trainings for new
[27:37] managers
[27:38] i don't know if they have attended those
[27:40] because they are running with the exact
[27:42] same pace very fast
[27:45] the way they were running as the team
[27:47] leader a very similar experience when i
[27:49] made that shift at pro site as well i
[27:52] think it's such a challenging bridge or
[27:54] you know just gap from when you're the
[27:56] content expert or the technical expert
[27:58] and you're in it every single day and
[28:00] you see it and you feel it you know it
[28:02] there's no questions and then it's like
[28:05] kind of like you're running up this hill
[28:06] of experience and then just you just
[28:09] plummet because you're like
[28:11] wait now i have to balance kind of a
[28:13] workload especially if you're like a
[28:14] player coach like a team lead that's
[28:16] hard too because you're still kind of
[28:18] doing the job a little bit while also
[28:20] starting to take on management skills
[28:22] and your workload doubles and while the
[28:24] intent is good because you start to
[28:26] develop the skills you need on the
[28:27] manager and the leader side
[28:29] you're just so over capacity too and
[28:32] you're you're trying to develop trust
[28:34] with your people to get to that next
[28:36] level like i want to trust you to make
[28:38] this decision but i haven't seen it yet
[28:39] i don't know what that looks like for me
[28:41] to trust you and that takes the time and
[28:43] it's it's such a whirlwind yeah
[28:46] and that's kind of where i want to help
[28:48] is that that gap right like there's as
[28:50] you get further in management you've
[28:51] seen it you have these gut experiences
[28:53] and you you kind of know what and just
[28:55] trust yourself a little bit more too but
[28:57] how do you get from kind of this side of
[28:59] the island to this side without you know
[29:02] plummeting
[29:03] yeah and burnout is a big one you know i
[29:06] burnt myself out by
[29:08] trying to do everything and be
[29:09] everything to everyone and not know how
[29:11] to set my own boundaries and say yes and
[29:13] say yes and
[29:14] i i want to help people understand too
[29:16] that while you are there to manage other
[29:19] people you are there for them they're in
[29:21] your charge you also have to take care
[29:23] of yourself first or
[29:25] even just that exhaustion can lead to
[29:27] micromanaging or other habits of just oh
[29:30] it's just going to be easier if i do it
[29:31] myself rather than teach you how to do
[29:33] it i think we've all felt or said that
[29:35] before
[29:37] yeah i almost feel like in this time
[29:39] when you became manager there are
[29:41] hundreds of things uh you you're doing
[29:43] your previous job and the new job and
[29:45] you're in the mix so you have lot to do
[29:48] but even though there's so much going on
[29:50] somehow take a pause
[29:53] one day three days five days whatever
[29:55] this training is do one training a month
[29:57] a quarter
[29:58] but be very intentional
[30:01] starting from scratch that this is a new
[30:03] job and
[30:05] it comes with completely new skills that
[30:07] you don't have
[30:09] i i think that something like that that
[30:11] they have to think
[30:13] otherwise they keep running into as they
[30:15] were running before yeah i think that's
[30:17] great advice for any manager
[30:20] it's a completely new job it's a
[30:22] completely new job
[30:25] i want to get into the the last phase of
[30:28] our um interview that
[30:31] what is your message to the audience
[30:34] you're developing your career i think
[30:36] it'd say yes to different opportunities
[30:38] i think so often we have in our mind
[30:41] that we're going to go down this one
[30:43] path that we might not even see how
[30:45] bright the light is shining on the other
[30:47] path and so even if that's just on you
[30:50] know a couple of interesting projects
[30:52] like i said really early in my career i
[30:53] was like hey development team do you
[30:55] need any help with anything hey customer
[30:57] service let me answer phones and see
[30:58] what you do and it was a lot out of
[31:00] curiosity of trying to figure out what i
[31:02] like but also having a desire to help
[31:04] but i think just like
[31:06] your toe and to figure out what you like
[31:07] is not a bad thing
[31:10] i think that you can go you know through
[31:12] door a door both ways so you can always
[31:14] try something and if you don't like it
[31:16] there's nothing wrong with going back to
[31:18] something else
[31:20] um
[31:21] and i think you know
[31:24] there's so many studies that your eq
[31:26] will get you further than your iq your
[31:27] emotional intelligence
[31:29] will get you further than your your
[31:31] intellectual intelligence and so i think
[31:34] developing relationships and making
[31:36] connections
[31:38] is often really hard when you're in your
[31:40] early career you're a little
[31:41] uncomfortable you're not sure how to do
[31:44] that i think my advice would be just
[31:46] start the conversation start it with
[31:48] different people and you never know
[31:50] when those conversations or those
[31:52] connections will come back around in
[31:55] your career five years 10 years 15 years
[31:58] later i know that every conversation
[32:00] i've had about a job you know after i
[32:03] decided to leave prosci
[32:06] was all mutual connections and i think
[32:08] that stuff really opens a lot of doors
[32:11] but it also helps people kind of connect
[32:12] with you and it makes it just makes life
[32:15] more enjoyable at work as well
[32:19] so i think really work is not work on
[32:20] focusing
[32:22] focus on working on those emotional
[32:24] intelligence skills the
[32:26] softer skills that we don't often
[32:28] highlight as frequently while we're
[32:29] developing um you know while we're
[32:31] earning our bachelor's degree it's not
[32:33] often focused on those so just don't
[32:35] leave them behind because they really do
[32:37] make a big a big impact in your career
[32:40] code name how can people find you
[32:43] through my website which it could be a
[32:44] little confusing because it's
[32:46] managementexcellence.com but it's
[32:49] m-e-a-n-t like if you're going to manage
[32:51] meet it and put meaning into your
[32:53] management uh you can find me as well i
[32:56] launched today my instagram so i'm
[32:59] starting to put content out through
[33:01] there um and then in january i'll
[33:03] actually have an on-demand course so i
[33:05] ran uh a couple in per time person but
[33:09] virtual trainings that were live so
[33:10] interactive and i received um a ton of
[33:13] feedback from people which surprised me
[33:16] just given my background with live
[33:17] training
[33:18] that they want something on demand watch
[33:21] when possible which makes sense for a
[33:23] manager audience you're very busy so
[33:25] i'll actually have one coming out at the
[33:26] end of january so which will be all
[33:29] about kind of how do you set up
[33:31] one-on-ones with your employees
[33:34] how do you create an employee preference
[33:36] profile so you get to know your people
[33:39] how do you set boundaries and hold your
[33:41] boundaries as a manager to avoid burnout
[33:44] how do you show up authentically and
[33:46] then all the way through developing
[33:47] empathy vulnerability radical
[33:49] transparency flexibility advocacy and
[33:52] follow-through
[33:54] are you planning a youtube as well
[33:56] i don't i don't have experience with
[33:58] youtube so maybe i'll have to learn from
[34:00] you i mean what do you think about it
[34:02] you are excellent in front of camera and
[34:05] you will be amazing
[34:07] it's so hard too and then we have that
[34:09] instant gratification wanting to see if
[34:11] anybody saw it reviewed it i in that
[34:14] imposter syndrome of how do i do this
[34:16] yeah yeah i'm full of it i'm full of
[34:19] impostor syndrome never know it you're
[34:21] very confident as a as a youtube host
[34:25] if somebody want to
[34:27] get your services do you want to give an
[34:29] idea is it
[34:31] if you want to answer that the great
[34:33] thing of joining when i'm in my
[34:34] entrepreneurial state is i'm pretty
[34:36] flexible because i want to help like i
[34:37] just want to get in there i typically
[34:39] set my calls around 60
[34:41] for an hour session um and so that's
[34:44] what i've been charging right now but my
[34:45] on-demand program will be 87
[34:48] for the class
[34:49] so it'll be one thing i really want to
[34:51] do one thing i found really challenging
[34:54] is if i couldn't get pro site a sponsor
[34:56] or a previous company to sponsor my
[34:58] training i needed to find something
[35:00] affordable that i could sponsor myself
[35:02] and so that's what where i want to be
[35:04] for people if you need help you need
[35:06] that on-demand help you want that
[35:08] training and you want to pursue it
[35:10] yourself and you don't want to have to
[35:11] pitch the case to your boss i want it to
[35:13] be affordable but also it's affordable
[35:15] enough that hopefully most bosses are
[35:17] going to say yes because i can promise
[35:19] you these skill sets
[35:21] uh building a just a better boss a more
[35:23] confident boss you could set boundaries
[35:25] is better business
[35:27] do you also help people who want to
[35:30] become manager and not there yet like
[35:32] they don't have the title but they have
[35:34] immense desire to become one yeah
[35:38] yeah i've actually been coaching someone
[35:40] very similar who knows and has applied
[35:43] it has been told you're not quite there
[35:44] yet um so we i have been actually but
[35:47] we're focusing more on skills um on
[35:49] things like time management um we talked
[35:52] a little bit about
[35:54] in our call how do you manage your tasks
[35:56] how do you manage competing priorities
[35:58] how do you and i've talked a little bit
[36:00] about like getting into things like
[36:02] delegation and not saying yes everything
[36:04] and building that trust early so
[36:06] starting to set some of those seats for
[36:07] the skills you need while also helping
[36:10] develop
[36:11] the skills that have been defined as a
[36:13] gap by the business to not be ready um
[36:15] quite yet for the manager position yeah
[36:19] um do you have um anything that you want
[36:22] to share that i have not asked in this
[36:24] interview anything that you think will
[36:26] be beneficial for the audience
[36:29] every career is going to have its ups
[36:30] and downs right i think one thing is
[36:32] just
[36:33] you know writing the downs to know
[36:35] you're going to come back up again and
[36:37] it's okay
[36:39] to make shifts for yourself i think
[36:41] that's one thing i'm so scared of for so
[36:43] long to be like i'm good at this and i
[36:46] like it here it's not gonna be better
[36:47] anywhere else and not necessarily that
[36:49] it's better but it's energizing and when
[36:51] you feel like you need to come out of
[36:53] that down dip maybe look for something
[36:55] that's gonna energize you and it doesn't
[36:56] have to be somewhere else but like i
[36:58] said you can tackle different projects
[37:00] inside but
[37:02] just knowing that it's gonna happen i
[37:04] think it's something i wish i knew like
[37:05] i just kind of thought your career goes
[37:07] it goes like this but you know there are
[37:10] times when you don't want to have that 8
[37:11] am meeting that you set up yourself you
[37:13] go down or you don't know where you're
[37:15] going in your career and it just feels
[37:17] it just feels hard sometimes and i think
[37:19] that's true for everybody so i think
[37:21] someone would have just told me you know
[37:22] it goes up up and down and just keep
[37:24] pushing because it's it gets better and
[37:27] then
[37:27] it just goes like this but that's what i
[37:29] want to say like hang in there because
[37:31] it can get back up again if you feel
[37:33] down
[37:34] and i think right now too sorry to like
[37:36] the point i wanted to make was
[37:38] it's so we're in a weird time like we're
[37:40] all virtual we're moving virtual we're
[37:42] working from home we're all establishing
[37:43] new normals and i think people early in
[37:45] their career
[37:47] who are in this really messy time to
[37:49] start
[37:50] that's why i wanted to say it because it
[37:51] just probably feels so
[37:53] odd to not necessarily have met all your
[37:56] colleagues in person maybe even some of
[37:58] them you've been virtual since the start
[38:00] like for me it's been so tough because i
[38:02] love that in-person interaction and so
[38:05] it felt very down for me until i started
[38:07] getting engaged better on video or just
[38:10] figuring out ways to make connections so
[38:12] in those times you can come back up
[38:17] well thank you so much uh courtney do
[38:19] you have any question for me
[38:21] i mean you know what advice do you
[38:23] typically give when you're when you're
[38:25] talking to people early in their career
[38:26] what's your number one piece of advice
[38:28] there was somebody who was in my team
[38:31] and
[38:32] she was very good at what she was doing
[38:35] but she was not able to see two years
[38:37] four years
[38:39] five years from
[38:40] where she could be
[38:42] so as a manager i was able to guide her
[38:46] what's next for you keep thinking what's
[38:48] next for you you're not gonna be in the
[38:50] same role for
[38:52] five years ten years twenty years so
[38:54] where
[38:55] what's next so i i
[38:57] help her find that this is the next and
[39:00] i even help her find what the strong
[39:02] points are
[39:04] um
[39:05] so i like to do that a lot helping
[39:09] people find what their next thing could
[39:11] be
[39:12] and what they could be good at the other
[39:14] thing that i try to do i advise that
[39:17] get a mentor in their field so mentor
[39:20] somebody who can
[39:21] give you more concrete instructions
[39:24] uh he's from your industry and can guide
[39:26] you
[39:27] what five ten years looks like and a
[39:29] coach somebody who can get the answer
[39:32] from help you get the answer from deep
[39:34] within
[39:35] and a combination of these two
[39:38] uh can help
[39:39] you find who you are that can lead you
[39:42] to the passion and purpose and and
[39:45] something that you can set yourself for
[39:47] 20 30 years
[39:48] um
[39:49] now
[39:52] at the same time
[39:54] in the initial career like if somebody
[39:57] who start
[39:58] let's say first three year five year
[40:00] don't even think what you're doing if
[40:04] you're working
[40:05] spend uh so much time like so much extra
[40:08] time on your work
[40:11] and
[40:12] try to get involved with more and more
[40:14] things don't think that if you're in
[40:16] support that your life will be support
[40:18] but just try to do better and try to do
[40:22] more of it and then also get involved
[40:24] and then the final advice i
[40:26] try to give everybody is
[40:29] don't
[40:30] just rely on your full-time work try to
[40:33] do something part-time it could be
[40:36] an activity that is in your your kids co
[40:39] school there are parent teacher
[40:41] associations there your church your
[40:44] temple
[40:46] a community anywhere you can get
[40:48] involved and
[40:50] either get a position or just help right
[40:53] i think my tremendo one of the
[40:56] tremendous growth that i gained
[40:58] when i became a
[41:00] president of my son high school ptsa and
[41:03] as a president i stabilized a college
[41:06] and career center there
[41:08] and and conducted many
[41:10] other program and the principal has said
[41:13] why in two-year window that you brought
[41:16] life to the ptsa and
[41:20] working with all those
[41:22] other parents
[41:24] and running as a president right running
[41:26] as a president uh presentation my
[41:29] weakest point
[41:31] but i had to conduct monthly meetings
[41:33] there
[41:34] and
[41:36] and
[41:37] my job as a president is to influence
[41:40] and support people and get the ideas
[41:42] going without any i mean in this case i
[41:45] didn't have any authority on those
[41:47] parents but all volunteers but
[41:49] point is
[41:50] i seen a tremendous growth in my own
[41:53] confidence by doing this so i always say
[41:56] that do something on the side either
[41:58] it's a part-time job or a freelancing
[42:01] job or something like this
[42:05] yeah when you're quiver um i like that
[42:07] you said one thing
[42:09] and i'll end on this
[42:11] that was really great that i coached a
[42:13] lot of managers on as you said i helped
[42:15] my team members see the future let's see
[42:18] what could be coming see what's there
[42:19] for them and i had a mentor really early
[42:22] from disney who told me
[42:24] if you're managing people you're you
[42:27] your job is that so if they're still in
[42:29] the same position and they're high
[42:30] performers or they're in the same
[42:32] position under you
[42:33] you know within two years i think the
[42:35] time frame doesn't really matter but two
[42:37] years later same pay same position same
[42:39] responsibilities that person hasn't
[42:42] failed you failed as a manager and that
[42:44] always stood with me of how do we grow
[42:46] our people
[42:47] so i loved that you said that
[42:50] courtney believe it or not a few months
[42:52] ago
[42:53] um one of the top performers in my team
[42:56] and i heavily rely on this person i
[43:00] spend almost three weeks convincing him
[43:02] that there is another opportunity within
[43:04] the team within the department that you
[43:07] should
[43:08] get into
[43:09] and his first response was
[43:12] are you indicating me something am i not
[43:15] doing much i mean obviously right if the
[43:17] manager is saying something like that
[43:19] but i told him i will be in trouble if
[43:22] you go to this position and i told him
[43:24] that if i don't do this today
[43:27] in a year from now two year from now
[43:29] you're gonna leave and join another
[43:31] company
[43:32] yeah because you can just do the same
[43:35] thing over and over again for next five
[43:38] years you you also need growth and i
[43:40] think you will fit well there and you
[43:42] can continue to help me from that
[43:44] position
[43:46] maybe one day we can have another
[43:47] conversation because that that is such a
[43:49] good example of the advocacy piece that
[43:51] i want managers to learn because
[43:53] sometimes they're not grown on your team
[43:54] they're grown somewhere else but you
[43:55] have to help them get there i love that
[43:58] it was fun talking to you it was one of
[44:00] the best interviews i had
[44:02] wow thank you i had a lot of fun it was
[44:04] really it was a good time i appreciate
[44:07] the invite our follow-up item is let's
[44:09] connect again and then i'm
[44:11] going to help you and kind of encourage
[44:13] you and push you to start your own
[44:15] youtube
[44:17] uh yeah i would love to do conversations
[44:19] and you'll be one of the first guests if
[44:21] i can figure it out so i may i may have
[44:23] some questions for you
[44:25] good things
[44:26] well thank you i hope you have a good
[44:28] day
[44:29] you too
[44:30] bye for now
[44:42] you