#6 Dr Pam Schilling: I want everyone to dream big

[0:00] i want people to dream and have
[0:04] really big dreams
[0:06] aspire
[0:07] to greatness when you're 20
[0:10] your career is going to be
[0:12] 30 plus
[0:14] years probably i'll give myself like an
[0:16] 88
[0:19] goodness at time management
[0:21] experience that completely shaped how i
[0:25] saw the world people in relationships
[0:28] are really really important you need
[0:29] people to support you
[0:31] you need people to advise you
[0:34] you need people to give you tough
[0:35] messages
[0:44] i will tell you a brief about what i'm
[0:46] trying to do with this
[0:47] um initiative this is my personal
[0:50] initiative has nothing to do with the
[0:52] advent health
[0:53] uh what i'm trying to do is
[0:56] to um interview different people who
[0:58] have done great in their career
[1:01] um specifically around the career so
[1:03] what they wanted so i start with what
[1:05] they wanted to become in when they were
[1:08] in high school
[1:09] and then their career generally from
[1:11] first job to where they are right now
[1:13] um and
[1:15] the goal setting method how they
[1:16] identify their dreams how they achieve
[1:18] their dreams and the message to the
[1:20] audience so it's kind of pretty simple
[1:23] um format but when when we start talking
[1:26] about it there are always something
[1:27] either a situation
[1:29] or a person something happened something
[1:32] that affected um
[1:34] the the path
[1:36] uh to uh for you to reach where you are
[1:40] cool i have plenty of those
[1:43] awesome um
[1:45] my hope is that i post these videos on
[1:49] youtube and my hope is that uh people
[1:52] who are in their early career
[1:54] will see this will learn from many other
[1:57] interviews plus this interview that
[2:00] um what they decide in their early
[2:02] career doesn't mean
[2:04] that they have to stick to that it's
[2:07] life is a long like marathon and you you
[2:10] evaluate your option you you learned
[2:13] that
[2:14] you can achieve anything just uh follow
[2:17] uh what you want to become and follow
[2:19] the opportunity that comes across yeah i
[2:22] love it
[2:23] so let's start with
[2:26] uh first question what you wanted to
[2:27] become when you was in high school
[2:30] my interest in high school was
[2:32] engineering
[2:34] i was really good at math and
[2:37] i thought
[2:39] maybe
[2:40] you know like aeronautical engineering i
[2:42] had an interest in being an astronaut i
[2:45] don't know where that came from
[2:48] and
[2:49] the wisdom of my parents we went to a
[2:52] conference for the society of women
[2:54] engineers
[2:56] and i learned
[2:57] about engineering and i hung out with a
[2:59] lot of also juniors in high school that
[3:02] thought about engineering
[3:05] to be honest it scared me off
[3:08] and
[3:09] it did and
[3:11] part of it was
[3:13] the depth of math part of it was
[3:16] as a woman plenty of people kept telling
[3:19] me if you ever leave
[3:21] the field of engineering progresses
[3:24] it can be really hard to re-enter and
[3:26] they're talking about things like going
[3:28] and having a family
[3:31] i did not end up pursuing engineering in
[3:34] college i ended up pursuing accounting
[3:36] my mom had been a bookkeeper
[3:38] and
[3:39] you know because i was good at math
[3:41] business made sense
[3:43] accounting is you know a place that
[3:46] there were a lot of very clear
[3:48] career opportunities and and that ended
[3:50] up being my intention as a freshman in
[3:53] college and and how i ended up pursuing
[3:55] my bachelor's degree
[3:58] okay and were you doing an internship
[4:01] while you was in college
[4:03] i did i did several
[4:06] i
[4:06] [Music]
[4:07] had
[4:08] part-time jobs
[4:10] like maybe
[4:12] the summer between my freshman and
[4:14] sophomore year
[4:16] and
[4:17] over the holidays i would work my mom
[4:19] worked for a small company and so i
[4:21] would go in and do that and then i was
[4:23] very fortunate i had an internship
[4:26] between
[4:28] my s
[4:29] my sophomore and junior year so
[4:32] i applied for an internship actually
[4:35] with the us government in kind of the
[4:37] agency that's the auditing function
[4:41] and
[4:42] really i did not anticipate getting it
[4:44] and i did and so
[4:46] i had a really robust internship before
[4:50] my junior year of college and i do think
[4:52] that that was
[4:55] formative for me because i got to work
[4:58] in a professional setting i got to
[5:00] you know work on
[5:02] what i knew what i know now and i didn't
[5:05] know it at the time is that they were
[5:07] more consulting projects than auditing
[5:10] projects okay and i think that's
[5:12] something we can you know speak about
[5:14] because
[5:16] i think it
[5:18] reshaped the way that i
[5:21] probably thought about business and the
[5:24] type of work that i liked doing
[5:27] because a lot of people who do
[5:29] accounting they either go into auditing
[5:31] which they now call assurance
[5:33] or tax or risk
[5:36] and my internship was really much more
[5:39] consulting oriented and then between my
[5:43] um junior and senior year i actually
[5:45] studied abroad and i didn't do an
[5:47] internship that year
[5:49] okay
[5:50] pros and cons to that as well um but
[5:53] that's probably another
[5:55] experience that completely shaped how i
[5:59] saw the world because the world
[6:02] i went to the uk it was an international
[6:05] program at the london school of
[6:06] economics
[6:08] i i just saw a world that i had never
[6:10] been exposed to because i grew up in the
[6:12] midwest i grew up in kansas city and and
[6:14] went to school at the university of
[6:16] kansas
[6:17] so like those
[6:19] i sort of did an inversion of what a lot
[6:22] of college students do
[6:24] internship first then study abroad a lot
[6:26] of students do them in reverse
[6:29] but i think both of those experiences
[6:31] were very very powerful not only in my
[6:34] first job after college but just so many
[6:37] things that went on years later
[6:40] okay
[6:43] all right so moving to the first job so
[6:45] how did you get the first job what was
[6:47] that um
[6:50] yeah so my first job i
[6:53] because i was an accounting major i
[6:55] recruited with a lot of the the
[6:57] accounting firms
[6:58] and for me
[7:00] that ended up not having a positive
[7:03] outcome so i had to look at different
[7:05] corporate roles that were going to use
[7:07] my background in accounting
[7:09] it was very interesting you know so this
[7:11] is the mid the mid 90s actually the
[7:13] early 90s
[7:14] and when
[7:16] i looked at companies
[7:18] i was looking at companies in kansas
[7:21] city companies that had need for
[7:24] accounting backgrounds
[7:26] and i looked at a number of big
[7:27] companies people like hallmark people
[7:29] like cargill
[7:30] and i ended up interviewing with a
[7:32] company called sprint
[7:34] and some of you may never have heard of
[7:36] them but at the time they were the third
[7:39] largest telecommunications company in
[7:41] the united states they were growing
[7:43] rapidly
[7:44] and
[7:46] what happened at the time with sprint
[7:48] they had an internal audit function
[7:52] they had brought in new leaders and they
[7:54] were trying to
[7:56] transform
[7:58] their internal audit function to be much
[8:00] more
[8:00] like an internal consulting function and
[8:03] then also
[8:04] a leadership development program
[8:06] for
[8:08] the rest of the company
[8:10] i went there it was
[8:14] fantastic it was well beyond what i
[8:17] would have expected as a first job
[8:20] because
[8:21] number one
[8:23] they had a huge amount of talent they
[8:26] had brought in
[8:28] from other companies
[8:30] who were at the time leaders
[8:33] in in different industries
[8:35] who cared a lot about employee
[8:38] development so that was a big thing
[8:41] yeah the second thing is i got to do
[8:44] projects all over the company
[8:46] and
[8:47] i saw every facet i saw different
[8:50] divisions different business units
[8:53] different functional areas
[8:55] because sprint was a telecom company
[8:58] we worked in their network operations we
[9:01] had to work in their areas that dealt
[9:04] with i.t like billing
[9:07] human resource systems supply chain
[9:11] and
[9:12] by the time i left that group and i was
[9:15] there three and a half years
[9:17] i was promoted twice
[9:19] i probably worked on maybe
[9:22] [Music]
[9:24] 40 different projects i mean we would do
[9:26] stuff very very quickly
[9:29] i worked with leaders at all levels
[9:33] one of my
[9:35] big big engagements we actually
[9:38] delivered our final project to the
[9:40] corporate cfo so i got to present
[9:44] to a senior executive you know and i'm
[9:46] probably 22 years old
[9:49] and it's princeton for meaning big deal
[9:51] yeah a big deal and i mean to literally
[9:54] present like he went around the room
[9:57] person by person
[9:59] asking us to explain our work and the
[10:00] impact of it
[10:02] and
[10:03] i think what
[10:06] i know now that i didn't know at the
[10:08] time
[10:10] was that i was getting all of these
[10:12] foundational skills and part of it was
[10:15] because the managers that i work with
[10:18] gave a lot of feedback
[10:21] after we would meet with people they
[10:23] would sit down you know i might be
[10:25] working with a manager who would say hey
[10:27] let me give you a couple of points
[10:29] that might have helped that meeting
[10:32] you know hey you're working on this
[10:34] analysis here's some things that you
[10:36] could think about a little bit
[10:37] differently that might shape it
[10:40] so it it's not just the job and the work
[10:43] but it was very much the the people that
[10:48] cared about whether you want to call it
[10:50] mentoring or feedback
[10:53] not all of it was
[10:55] wonderful by the way i mean some of
[10:57] these folks were
[10:59] harsh and difficult
[11:02] but
[11:03] it you know i think it gave me a lot of
[11:07] confidence it gave me a lot of breadth
[11:09] in my skill set it gave me a lot of
[11:11] exposure to business issues
[11:14] and
[11:16] you know ultimately when i left that job
[11:18] it was because i was selected to go into
[11:21] one of our internal leadership
[11:23] development programs
[11:26] so they each year they selected
[11:29] you know maybe 15 employees from the
[11:32] finance organization that went into a
[11:34] leadership development program okay
[11:37] and because i had a lot of
[11:39] if you would sponsorship from the
[11:41] organization
[11:43] i was nominated to go into that program
[11:46] and then you know the cycle began again
[11:48] except i had three
[11:51] 9 to 12 month assignments
[11:54] but under close mentorship
[11:57] of some of the even more senior leaders
[11:59] of the organization
[12:01] okay
[12:04] you know and i i would say
[12:06] vanad like the the thing that
[12:09] i don't think is much different today
[12:11] than i mean this was 25 years ago yeah i
[12:15] had to learn a lot of stuff on my own
[12:17] i had to learn communication skills i
[12:20] had to put together powerpoint
[12:22] presentations
[12:24] i worked with databases i mean i did
[12:26] data science before it was called data
[12:29] science
[12:32] very very proficient in excel i used
[12:34] access then you know today the tools are
[12:36] a little bit more sophisticated
[12:39] yeah but you know
[12:41] you were kind of put in these situations
[12:44] where
[12:45] you're being asked to do something and
[12:47] you're just trying to figure out a
[12:49] toolkit
[12:51] and as a business person
[12:54] i still needed to develop technical
[12:56] skills
[12:58] and i think it's it's something when i
[13:01] work with technical people who are
[13:03] trying to move into business roles you
[13:06] know you're always trying to push your
[13:07] boundaries
[13:09] a little bit
[13:10] and the nature of the work i did
[13:11] somewhat forced that
[13:16] and it was hard and it was fun um when i
[13:19] left the rotational program i took a
[13:22] more
[13:23] sophisticated finance role i worked on a
[13:27] joint venture that sprint had with two
[13:30] european telecom companies
[13:33] very global very culturally immersive
[13:37] tons of conflict
[13:40] which served me later
[13:43] and and then i took a role
[13:46] where i was dealing with
[13:48] kind of the financial decision-making
[13:50] side of some of the investment we were
[13:53] making in emerging technology and
[13:56] and this is the thing that
[13:59] again when i think about young people
[14:02] you know at that time
[14:04] mobile phones didn't exist um the
[14:06] internet you know this is again like the
[14:08] middle 90s at this point the
[14:11] the internet didn't exist we didn't have
[14:13] wi-fi we didn't have streaming
[14:16] but sprint
[14:18] was one of the companies that was
[14:20] building that foundation
[14:22] i remember 1998 i believe when they have
[14:26] this big
[14:27] cell phone yes
[14:29] yes and we were sprint was one of the
[14:31] first companies
[14:33] to be to begin they they invested
[14:36] billions in the mobile auctions
[14:40] and
[14:41] you know i think when i reflect on that
[14:43] so
[14:45] one
[14:46] being a part of
[14:48] emerging technology is really
[14:50] interesting
[14:52] but again
[14:54] i was the business person but i was
[14:57] constantly trying to understand
[15:00] some of the really technical things and
[15:04] how to deal with ambiguity because
[15:06] nobody knew
[15:08] if anybody was going to buy that stuff
[15:11] you know i worked on a project
[15:15] and and again young people will never
[15:17] know about this
[15:18] but it was called iridium and it was
[15:21] satellite
[15:22] mobile phones satellite based mobile
[15:24] phones and a company called motorola
[15:26] shot up satellites
[15:28] and then sprint was providing the
[15:30] the connectivity on the earth
[15:33] i think it was around the same time
[15:34] right
[15:35] 1998-99
[15:37] exactly
[15:39] 1999
[15:41] 8 9 during that part
[15:44] i completed my engineering and
[15:46] engineering telecommunication
[15:48] electronic and telecommunication
[15:50] and i could not find a job everybody was
[15:53] asking like three to four years of
[15:54] experience and i said give me the job so
[15:56] that i could get an experience yes so i
[15:59] my father always says that instead of
[16:01] waiting for a perfect job
[16:03] get a job that is available so i got a
[16:06] job
[16:07] is more like apbx technician which is
[16:10] more like uh intercom
[16:12] they used to be intercom uh in a small
[16:15] offices at that time
[16:16] so i became technician and they promoted
[16:19] me they asked me that you have good
[16:22] education why don't you sell instead of
[16:24] fix it and then i from there i started
[16:28] selling
[16:29] um cellular plants
[16:31] yeah a sprint plan
[16:33] and there you go
[16:35] yeah in india and
[16:37] it was really hard to convince anyone
[16:40] that why do they have to pay for
[16:42] incoming calls also
[16:44] yes
[16:45] well and you're talking about i mean
[16:46] it's essentially the same thing that
[16:48] happened to me
[16:49] i wanted to be an accountant i wanted to
[16:51] go work for an accounting firm i didn't
[16:54] get that job
[16:55] yeah i ended up at sprint
[16:58] i spent seven and a half years there i
[17:00] had eight different roles i was at the
[17:04] forefront of
[17:06] emerging technology that's all a part of
[17:09] the stuff that we use today
[17:12] and
[17:14] when i moved forward i mean i i left
[17:17] sprint i went to work for a company
[17:19] called worldcom that
[17:21] is more known for the biggest corporate
[17:23] fraud ever committed up until other
[17:26] companies but that's a whole
[17:28] and then i went and i started my mba
[17:30] at the university of chicago
[17:33] and then i went into consulting and
[17:36] and all of those things
[17:38] made the experiences later
[17:41] i think i had a much more robust skill
[17:45] set and it really comes down to what you
[17:47] were describing
[17:49] yeah i had this grand plan and i had abc
[17:53] all mapped out for my career in my 20s
[17:57] it completely disappeared
[18:00] at a
[18:02] but
[18:03] was i disappointed for sure i was
[18:05] disappointed
[18:06] but did i
[18:08] make the most of it did i land with an
[18:10] amazing opportunity
[18:13] absolutely and then once in that
[18:15] opportunity
[18:17] you're trying to make choices
[18:20] to
[18:21] get great skills and great experience
[18:24] and
[18:26] i think
[18:27] you know my time at sprint it it
[18:30] it wasn't by design it was about
[18:33] looking at things and saying wow that
[18:36] might be really interesting
[18:38] to be a part of you know i don't have
[18:40] international experience maybe i ought
[18:42] to work in that area
[18:44] i don't have supply chain experience
[18:46] maybe i should work in that area i don't
[18:47] have experience with new technology
[18:50] maybe i should work in that area and i
[18:52] think for somebody
[18:54] you know early in their career
[18:56] trying to build this portfolio
[18:59] and
[19:01] and work with people that are going to
[19:03] help you
[19:05] learn
[19:06] that want you to grow and develop they
[19:09] don't want to put you on your on their
[19:11] team
[19:13] and and kind of keep you there forever
[19:16] yeah
[19:17] um and then you know when i went into
[19:20] strategy consulting like a lot of mbas
[19:22] so i went to the university of chicago i
[19:24] was very very fortunate
[19:27] that was a designed
[19:29] choice i only applied to one business
[19:31] school
[19:32] and
[19:33] some of it was because
[19:35] i had a very robust business background
[19:38] i wanted to be a little bit more
[19:41] discerning in the courses that i took i
[19:43] didn't want to have to take a standard
[19:45] curriculum which is something that that
[19:47] chicago allows
[19:49] i thought i wanted to be a cfo because i
[19:52] really loved finance
[19:54] so why not go to chicago it was you know
[19:56] i was from the midwest i liked you know
[19:59] i liked chicago
[20:02] and
[20:03] i was an mba student from 1997 to 1999
[20:07] which was a really you know again i'm
[20:09] showing how old i am but
[20:12] you know it was a time of
[20:14] a lot of disruption a lot of craziness
[20:18] um
[20:20] i chose an mba program that would allow
[20:24] me
[20:24] to learn things
[20:26] really fundamentally
[20:28] and
[20:29] you know there's a lot of things i could
[20:31] say about chicago
[20:32] uh which were important but there were
[20:35] two things that came out of it one is i
[20:37] met great people my peers
[20:40] that's super critical and then secondly
[20:43] academically
[20:45] i got a lot of
[20:48] theory
[20:49] that then i could apply later in my work
[20:54] and when i
[20:55] was about
[20:56] oh maybe a
[20:58] halfway through the program i realized
[21:00] that finance was not my interest
[21:04] okay i took
[21:06] i took a bunch of strategy classes i
[21:08] took economics
[21:10] i took marketing
[21:12] and all of a sudden
[21:14] that desire to be a cfo
[21:18] sort of diminished
[21:20] and now the world of strategy opened up
[21:22] to me
[21:24] and
[21:26] like many mbas i thought well i should
[21:28] go be a consultant i should go be a
[21:30] strategy consultant
[21:33] and like many mbas i went and recruited
[21:36] i went and you know went to all the
[21:39] events right they have all these
[21:43] different you know presentations and you
[21:45] get to meet the firms
[21:47] and this is probably something that
[21:50] shaped
[21:52] my future forever
[21:55] i did not feel connected to the
[21:58] consulting firms that were larger firms
[22:01] that have the big brand names
[22:04] it i think it was a combination of
[22:06] knowing myself
[22:08] i had worked
[22:10] in roles where we had consultants come
[22:13] in
[22:14] i maybe saw the
[22:16] you know the angel on the devil's side
[22:18] of consulting firms
[22:21] and the firms that i was more attracted
[22:23] to
[22:24] had parts of their ethos that dealt with
[22:30] the actual
[22:31] implementation side of projects
[22:34] so i didn't interview with the big firms
[22:36] i didn't talk to firms like mckinsey or
[22:38] the boston consulting group
[22:41] by the way another important thing that
[22:43] i think for people early in their career
[22:46] i had consultants tell me i would never
[22:49] get a consulting job
[22:51] and
[22:52] it largely came from one specific thing
[22:57] i did not have a super high gmat score
[23:02] and
[23:03] i mean i literally remember
[23:05] one person
[23:07] i'm like visualizing that person right
[23:09] now and they're like pam you're not
[23:10] you're not going to be able to get a
[23:11] consulting job
[23:13] did you like
[23:14] school
[23:15] yeah the gmat you know because mbas to
[23:18] get into top elite mba programs you take
[23:21] the gmat and for other graduate programs
[23:23] it might be a gre
[23:26] at the time and and really until frankly
[23:29] covid
[23:30] the gmat score
[23:32] was a big decision factor for many of
[23:36] these selective consulting groups
[23:41] i think you know and you were asking me
[23:44] at the start about those moments
[23:47] i think that that person
[23:51] it had two effects on me
[23:53] so one was
[23:55] well i'm gonna prove that person wrong
[23:58] i'm gonna go get a consulting job but i
[24:00] think also
[24:02] it
[24:02] reinforced a little bit of my own
[24:05] thinking about not going after some of
[24:07] those larger the elite firms
[24:11] because
[24:13] i didn't want to fail at it but but to
[24:15] me it wasn't a choice around failure it
[24:18] was a choice around return on effort you
[24:20] know why would i go
[24:23] in hindsight i don't know i don't know
[24:25] if that was the right choice or not but
[24:28] it allowed me to
[24:30] recruit and put all my energies into the
[24:33] firms that i was the most interested in
[24:36] and i got an offer from the the top
[24:39] choice on my list
[24:41] which at the time was a boutique firm
[24:44] they focused on strategy with a
[24:46] technology backbone
[24:49] people turned down mckinsey to come work
[24:51] for our firm in 1999 because the firm
[24:54] was
[24:56] really prominent they did a great job of
[24:59] culture building and and displaying what
[25:02] they were all about on campuses
[25:05] and it was a you know the dot com time
[25:07] dot com right there
[25:09] right
[25:11] and people
[25:13] were captivated by that um
[25:16] if you flash forward a couple of years
[25:19] from that
[25:21] that time period you know the dot-com
[25:23] bubble burst
[25:25] y2k happened where there was all this
[25:27] buildup of technology investment
[25:30] and then 911 happened
[25:32] and the result of that was many
[25:35] consulting firms
[25:37] shrank
[25:38] and
[25:39] many of the firms that were prominent at
[25:42] that time actually closed
[25:44] their doors
[25:46] by the way
[25:48] that
[25:49] crisis
[25:51] was probably as prominent as this
[25:53] economic crisis we're in right now
[25:56] due to the pandemic for different
[25:58] reasons but it was a crisis right so
[26:02] i'm
[26:02] a year out of business school there's a
[26:04] massive crisis
[26:06] by the end of it all when the dust
[26:08] settles
[26:10] there were 11
[26:11] students from the university of chicago
[26:13] from my starting group at my firm and i
[26:16] was the last one standing
[26:19] i kind of endured it all why did i
[26:21] endure it well because
[26:25] i worked on high demand projects i
[26:28] didn't work on the coolest projects
[26:31] yep
[26:32] i worked on high demand projects
[26:35] when the ceo came to me and said hey
[26:39] we're going to try to break into the
[26:40] public sector
[26:42] we've got this big proposal
[26:44] for the chicago transit authority which
[26:46] is the public transit system you know
[26:48] pam would you go work on that am i going
[26:50] to say no to the ceo
[26:52] no
[26:54] no
[26:54] we got a three-year contract with them
[26:57] and it kept many of us
[26:59] you know stable
[27:02] i think
[27:04] sexy
[27:05] versus
[27:06] high demand those are two different
[27:08] things and i chose high demand
[27:12] that allowed me to work through and can
[27:16] keep my consulting job
[27:18] at a time when we let go of 50
[27:22] of our consultants
[27:27] right
[27:28] so i mean that's you know there's lots
[27:30] of things i could say about that but you
[27:33] know i had this great diverse background
[27:37] from the work i had done at sprint i
[27:39] could deploy it you know i could do
[27:41] finance things i was i was armed with
[27:43] data analytics
[27:45] i had all this stuff for my mba i had
[27:47] change management i had a whole bunch of
[27:49] things that make you a very
[27:52] good consultant because you got a big
[27:54] bag of tricks yeah yeah right
[27:58] yeah and i was fairly calm because
[28:03] i didn't mind
[28:04] the
[28:06] the ever-changing winds because i had
[28:09] worked in a crazy telecom industry
[28:15] yeah
[28:16] so
[28:17] after three and a half years
[28:19] i
[28:20] was physically and mentally exhausted
[28:22] because i've been trying to keep my job
[28:25] i worked on really really hard clients
[28:29] it was super valuable but it was really
[28:31] grueling
[28:33] and i left and i left because i had a
[28:37] phenomenal professional opportunity
[28:39] a friend of mine from business school
[28:41] called me up
[28:42] he said i'm working at this very cool
[28:44] tech company we're probably going to ipo
[28:46] in two years so go public
[28:49] you want to come and you know help build
[28:52] a finance team and so
[28:55] i did
[28:56] it was an arduous
[28:58] um
[28:59] recruiting process
[29:01] but i think what they valued was that i
[29:04] had all this experience from sprint
[29:06] working in finance
[29:09] i had all this experience working in
[29:11] consulting
[29:13] and so i could go deep but i also had
[29:16] breadth
[29:17] and
[29:18] i had to interview with every executive
[29:20] of the company because they were all
[29:22] going to be my stakeholders
[29:24] because what i didn't know is that they
[29:26] were hiring me to build a lot of the
[29:28] financial planning for the ipo
[29:32] i see
[29:33] so maturity
[29:35] dealing with executives
[29:38] being able to be credible and authority
[29:40] you know being an authority
[29:43] was a good thing
[29:44] and
[29:45] while i was there the company ipo'd at
[29:48] the time it was one of the most
[29:49] successful ipos
[29:51] i think you know within a 14 month
[29:53] period
[29:54] the company did extremely well
[29:58] and i laughed your ex videos too
[30:00] what's that
[30:01] you have that ipo experience too yes
[30:05] yes i mean i did i didn't i wish that i
[30:08] had
[30:10] engaged a little bit more
[30:13] in some of the aspects of it but
[30:16] you know
[30:17] i i got to build
[30:20] the financial plan which is really
[30:22] really important for
[30:24] kind of the wall street side of it
[30:26] um
[30:28] and i ended up leaving that company
[30:30] a lot of it was leadership change and
[30:34] and there were some new things that they
[30:35] wanted to do that
[30:38] you know myself and the person i was
[30:39] working for
[30:41] didn't really align to so there was some
[30:43] conflict
[30:44] i went back into consulting
[30:47] and
[30:48] ultimately i worked for two more
[30:49] consulting firms
[30:51] okay
[30:53] that was
[30:55] if i think back on it
[30:58] it was kind of stupid you know i went
[31:02] i was looking
[31:05] to to upgrade my professional experience
[31:09] by way of the brand of the companies
[31:12] what i did not do was think about things
[31:16] like
[31:17] company culture
[31:19] who were the leaders that i was working
[31:22] with
[31:23] what
[31:24] what were my professional goals what did
[31:27] i want to do i mean i really cared about
[31:30] money and title
[31:33] and what it would sound like to say i
[31:36] worked for a certain firm
[31:39] but don't you think that that's most of
[31:42] the people do in the beginning of the
[31:43] career career that big names um
[31:47] job title the growth within the job
[31:49] title and things like that yes
[31:52] yes i do
[31:54] and i think it's okay
[31:56] i mean i was doing it
[31:58] at maybe a middle stage of my career
[32:03] and i think when you are more seasoned
[32:06] you've got to dig a level deeper
[32:09] i agree
[32:10] and and the consequences
[32:13] the
[32:15] position that you're in is different i
[32:17] mean i went to work for what was then a
[32:19] firm called booz allen hamilton it's now
[32:22] a firm called strategy and part of pwc
[32:26] and i purely went there because i
[32:29] thought
[32:30] that the brand was gonna help me in my
[32:33] career
[32:34] you know i i thought i would get to do
[32:37] way bigger projects i thought i would
[32:40] get to
[32:41] you know work with partners that were
[32:43] uber smart
[32:46] and
[32:47] a good bit of that was true
[32:51] it was then you realize that there are
[32:53] some circumstances that don't always
[32:56] make that
[32:58] work out the way that you think it will
[33:00] so things that i didn't realize
[33:02] one the firm was having
[33:04] some internal strife because two
[33:07] divisions of the firm were in conflict
[33:10] with each other that's ultimately why
[33:13] that firm split up would i have known
[33:15] that
[33:17] i don't know maybe if i'd done a little
[33:19] more due diligence i would have realized
[33:21] some of the cultural aspects
[33:23] consulting has a very apprentice-led
[33:25] model
[33:27] the partner i went to work for
[33:30] was not on strong footing that partner
[33:32] was actually
[33:34] let go from the firm about six months
[33:37] into
[33:38] my being hired
[33:40] and so
[33:41] i lost a lot of my
[33:43] guidance if you will should i have known
[33:46] that i don't know not i don't know i
[33:49] yeah
[33:50] i maybe should have asked a few more
[33:52] questions
[33:54] so i think you know your your point is
[33:56] right
[33:58] early in your career some of those
[33:59] things don't matter
[34:02] when you're 10 12 years into your career
[34:06] you may want to to be a little bit more
[34:10] discerning i mean and i talk about
[34:11] people you know all the time now
[34:14] because if i flash forward a little bit
[34:18] when i left strategy end
[34:22] i
[34:23] was lost
[34:25] i mean here i am i've got a fantastic
[34:28] career
[34:30] i'm making you know frankly over 200 000
[34:34] a year as a consultant
[34:36] i had a huge set of credentials on my
[34:39] resume
[34:40] great work
[34:42] i didn't know what i wanted to do next
[34:46] i was you know i'd been at three
[34:48] employers in about six years
[34:52] each of them was hard for a different
[34:55] reason i hadn't connected with leaders
[35:01] and i felt a bit lost
[35:04] and i think i
[35:06] had a hit to my ego
[35:09] i
[35:10] wasn't progressing the same rate as i
[35:13] was earlier in my career
[35:17] and i stepped back i mean the good thing
[35:18] i did is
[35:20] i hired a career coach
[35:23] i stepped back i did a lot of reflection
[35:26] and my choice
[35:28] i decided to take kind of a two-year
[35:31] what i thought was going to be a
[35:32] two-year professional sabbatical
[35:35] and i loved coaching i loved mentoring i
[35:38] wanted to do work that i just felt
[35:42] good at and a sense of fulfillment
[35:45] and i went to work back
[35:47] at my alma mater the university of
[35:49] chicago in the nba career office
[35:53] it was supposed to be a two-year you
[35:55] know i'm gonna go do this and i'm gonna
[35:57] you know kind of get my act together
[36:00] i was getting married so i had a lot of
[36:02] life changes
[36:04] and i fell in love with the work
[36:06] and you know that was in 2010 and it's
[36:09] now 2021 and i've been doing that ever
[36:12] since
[36:15] and i think that
[36:17] all of those prior experiences were
[36:20] super valuable because what i did
[36:24] is i stepped back and i said what do i
[36:26] love doing and how do i make frankly how
[36:29] do i make money and how do i create a
[36:31] career path for myself
[36:33] doing what i love doing and and the last
[36:36] thing about it
[36:38] i think when i was a consultant
[36:40] i had a persona that i created
[36:44] as opposed to
[36:46] a persona that was just me
[36:49] and
[36:51] and this is just me everybody is really
[36:53] different
[36:54] i think
[36:55] that i was trying
[36:58] to meet everybody else's expectations
[37:03] about career progression promotion
[37:07] salary income
[37:10] i wanted achievement constant
[37:13] achievement
[37:15] i love impact you know i love making an
[37:18] impact
[37:21] but it always it just felt like in order
[37:24] to do that i had to
[37:27] be someone i was not
[37:31] and i didn't like who i was i mean i
[37:33] would wake up in the morning and it's
[37:35] like i had to put on you know a suit i
[37:37] mean not a business suit i had to put on
[37:39] this suit of
[37:41] a person i had to be harsh
[37:44] i had to be
[37:49] maybe a teeny bit ruthless at times
[37:54] yeah
[37:56] and i was i think
[37:58] what i what i know now is that i was
[38:02] always trying to achieve more and more
[38:05] and more and like what's the next level
[38:08] what's the next job
[38:11] and when i started coaching
[38:15] it reminded me
[38:17] that i didn't need to be the headline
[38:21] like all of my work was for the benefit
[38:24] of others
[38:26] and for me
[38:28] it fit it fit really well
[38:32] and i didn't have to worry about getting
[38:34] promoted and i didn't have to worry
[38:36] about
[38:37] you know was i doing something to build
[38:39] my resume and
[38:42] i just did my work i just i helped
[38:43] students i provide my you know my
[38:46] perspective my advice i got to research
[38:48] i got to learn
[38:50] i got to be creative
[38:53] and after a period of time i left i left
[38:57] the university of chicago
[39:00] and
[39:01] i started teaching because i love
[39:02] teaching
[39:04] and then i started building my company
[39:07] and
[39:08] i did not know it
[39:10] but when i started building my company i
[39:13] realized
[39:14] i really like being an entrepreneur
[39:19] and after
[39:20] more than 15 years of working
[39:23] with or at some of the biggest companies
[39:26] in the world
[39:28] it occurred to me
[39:29] that i really
[39:31] like
[39:33] creating an organization from scratch
[39:38] and i don't know
[39:40] why i didn't realize that earlier in my
[39:42] career
[39:43] but looking back
[39:46] my personality
[39:48] is
[39:49] way more suited
[39:51] to entrepreneurship than it ever was
[39:54] to working inside the corporate setting
[39:58] and that's where i landed so i started
[40:01] building you know a company that was
[40:03] myself
[40:04] then i started growing
[40:06] expanding
[40:08] and then about three years ago
[40:11] i i repositioned the company as it is
[40:14] now which is called archer career
[40:16] to be technology focused to be building
[40:20] software technology that supports people
[40:22] in their career advancement
[40:24] now i have a team
[40:26] we're growing we're expanding
[40:29] and
[40:30] i get to do everything
[40:33] that i loved
[40:35] about all of my prior roles okay
[40:38] yeah
[40:39] and i get to
[40:41] make decisions
[40:43] some of them are good some of them might
[40:45] not be good
[40:48] um there's still a lot of things about
[40:49] it that are kind of yucky don't don't
[40:51] get it get me wrong i mean running a
[40:53] company on your own running a company as
[40:56] a startup is really really hard
[40:58] but the big difference is
[41:02] i
[41:03] know exactly the impact i'm making i get
[41:07] to be myself
[41:09] and i don't have to worry about being
[41:11] promoted in the work i do because i'm
[41:14] the ceo
[41:18] and you know i don't know if earlier in
[41:21] my career i would have been ready
[41:23] to be an entrepreneur i mean frankly
[41:25] when i was in business school i wrote
[41:27] two business plans
[41:31] either one of them could have been great
[41:33] startup companies but i don't know if at
[41:35] that time i was ready to do it for a lot
[41:38] of reasons
[41:40] but you know flash forward
[41:43] 15 years and i was ready to do it
[41:47] and
[41:49] i love it you know i i don't think any
[41:51] one decision in my career led me to
[41:53] where i am today i think it was an
[41:55] accumulation of things
[41:58] and i by the way i don't think being an
[42:00] entrepreneur is right for everybody
[42:02] um
[42:04] but i've enjoyed it to this point and
[42:06] and
[42:07] you know i don't know what my next job
[42:09] is i don't know if i'm gonna do this
[42:11] until i retire i don't know if i'm gonna
[42:14] sell the company
[42:16] you know i don't know if
[42:18] we're gonna be a going entity three
[42:20] years from now
[42:21] but i am totally okay with that because
[42:24] i love what we're doing in the moment
[42:29] last few minutes was very impactful
[42:32] and
[42:34] it was thanks
[42:36] thanks
[42:38] and you know i so you know part of this
[42:40] for now too is i mean i have a family i
[42:42] mean i have eight-year-old twin sons
[42:47] i think a lot about
[42:49] i mean i was
[42:51] 40 when they were born
[42:55] i'm not young
[42:57] and
[42:59] i think a lot about
[43:02] how
[43:03] am i living a complete life
[43:08] which allows me
[43:10] to do what i want to do professionally
[43:14] but do what i want to do as a parent
[43:17] and as a as a you know i have a spouse
[43:20] so you know he and i operate our family
[43:23] together
[43:24] he has a very busy career
[43:28] how do i you know and people talk about
[43:30] having it all i don't i don't know what
[43:32] that is if i
[43:34] if anybody can define that i don't know
[43:37] what it is
[43:39] but what i do know
[43:41] is that i want those pieces to fit
[43:44] together
[43:45] and
[43:47] i try not to make compromises but i do
[43:51] have to make trade-offs
[43:53] yeah sometimes one thing is important
[43:55] something other thing is important and
[43:57] you spend more time one day on one thing
[43:59] and then you spend another day
[44:01] exactly and that's how
[44:04] exactly exactly and you know i talked to
[44:07] a lot of young women
[44:09] i talk to a lot of young men
[44:11] i talk to people that are
[44:13] soon to be parents people that are
[44:16] parents
[44:18] you know we all
[44:20] have challenges you know i talk to
[44:23] people that aren't anywhere near being
[44:26] you know having a spouse or being a
[44:28] parent and they're still challenged to
[44:30] kind of find
[44:32] time
[44:35] when i was younger i was terrible i mean
[44:38] i'm i'm a very you know people that work
[44:40] with me and people that know me i'm
[44:42] i'm kind of on
[44:44] or off like when i go i tend to go 100
[44:47] miles an hour
[44:48] i go all in
[44:50] and
[44:51] that can be
[44:54] really great it can also be really
[44:56] difficult
[44:57] because
[44:58] there were times in my life especially
[45:01] early in my career that i think i
[45:02] experienced burnout because it was all i
[45:05] did my friends were at work
[45:08] my social endeavors were at work i had
[45:11] high pressure
[45:12] high intensity jobs
[45:16] and
[45:17] consulting is made it worse because
[45:20] that's
[45:21] yeah that's the definition of consulting
[45:24] and i had never
[45:25] [Music]
[45:27] asked myself
[45:29] what were the balance of the pieces or
[45:31] what was the allocation
[45:34] of the pieces
[45:36] now
[45:38] i have to do that it's like having kids
[45:41] kind of forced me into it
[45:45] but it's a very conscious choice and i
[45:47] can feel when it's getting out of
[45:49] control and then i gotta you know
[45:52] reallocate those pieces
[45:56] and i think
[45:58] you know one thing if i could go back as
[46:00] a younger person
[46:01] i i would
[46:03] i would definitely give more thought to
[46:06] [Music]
[46:07] that 100
[46:09] all the time or the 100 miles an hour
[46:12] and how do you balance some of that
[46:14] and have a bit more of a flow instead of
[46:17] just constantly
[46:19] running a hundred miles an hour and i
[46:21] think right now for people that are
[46:23] starting their careers
[46:26] they're such a high intensity for most
[46:29] people in their jobs
[46:31] it's hard not to
[46:34] want to do it all and want to do it fast
[46:37] and want to get promoted and
[46:40] want to make more money and and i think
[46:42] we want all those things but they come
[46:44] with uh
[46:45] some trade-offs right
[46:47] yeah i think initially three to five
[46:48] here is just you
[46:50] focus
[46:51] focus on working
[46:53] yes not thinking about promotion or not
[46:55] thinking about any other thing
[46:58] yeah
[46:59] and
[47:00] i mean i advise people and it's easy
[47:02] because i'm an advisor now you know when
[47:05] i'm when i'm playing my role as a career
[47:07] coach
[47:09] i'm not in the trenches
[47:11] but but i do manage my own career now
[47:14] and i think this question of what are
[47:16] your goals
[47:18] what are your aspirations
[47:21] i think
[47:23] what i try to encourage people to do
[47:26] is to have
[47:28] goals that are reasonable
[47:31] and and to have
[47:33] certain expectations like a timeline but
[47:35] to give yourself a little bit of
[47:37] flexibility
[47:40] and
[47:42] you know and this is the trick because
[47:44] if you set a goal for yourself if you
[47:46] give yourself too much flexibility
[47:49] then you almost give yourself an excuse
[47:51] not to achieve that goal
[47:54] true
[47:56] i want to bring
[47:57] you you're
[47:58] in this conversation you brought
[48:01] you you referred to one point that
[48:04] knowing yourself and at some point you
[48:06] kind of knew that what
[48:08] who you are and what you want right
[48:12] and i think
[48:14] with the career with everything
[48:17] there is a time when you have to kind of
[48:19] soul search and find who you are and
[48:22] what you really want and that's not an
[48:23] easy process
[48:25] it's a very difficult process to be able
[48:27] to find
[48:28] who you are and what you want
[48:32] oh it's a very difficult process
[48:36] very difficult
[48:37] i think it's difficult
[48:40] in your 20s
[48:42] i mean just in general you don't know
[48:45] who you are
[48:47] it's
[48:48] although i say that and then i think to
[48:50] myself
[48:52] i actually meet some people in their 20s
[48:54] that really have their act together
[48:56] impressive
[49:00] i think
[49:01] that
[49:02] [Music]
[49:04] even though it's hard
[49:07] you have to be persistent and what do
[49:09] you do i think it's a matter of asking
[49:11] some questions
[49:16] question would be
[49:17] are you making choices
[49:20] because of what others want or because
[49:23] of what you want
[49:25] yeah i think that's a very important
[49:28] question you know parents are very
[49:30] powerful influence friends are a very
[49:32] powerful influence
[49:34] um
[49:35] you know it's cliche it's a lot of talk
[49:38] these days but social media is a very
[49:40] powerful influence
[49:42] and it's okay to ask yourself
[49:47] why you're making certain choices
[49:50] i made choices because
[49:53] my parents especially my mom was
[49:58] a very important part of my life she
[49:59] cared a lot about my career she cared a
[50:01] lot about me
[50:03] she wanted
[50:05] maybe an easier life
[50:07] than she had had and she and my dad
[50:11] and out of the goodness of them and
[50:14] their hearts and his parents you know
[50:15] they wanted something better for their
[50:17] kid
[50:19] and that places a lot of pressure on us
[50:23] and i but i think it's the knowing it
[50:26] it's
[50:27] it's not about whether that's bad or
[50:29] good it's just knowing that you're
[50:31] making certain choices and what those
[50:33] trade-offs are i think that's one thing
[50:36] i think the second thing
[50:38] to create that awareness
[50:43] i would ask
[50:44] and i do this now i ask myself
[50:48] how tired am i
[50:51] okay
[50:52] and i think what happens is when you've
[50:55] got to put on that suit you got to put
[50:57] on that persona
[51:00] it's tiring it's physically
[51:03] tiring because
[51:06] you're doing things a certain way that
[51:10] that it's almost
[51:11] a bit like acting
[51:14] and
[51:15] when we are extremely tired
[51:20] one of the reasons for it could be that
[51:23] we are putting we're constantly having
[51:25] to put on a persona
[51:28] that isn't our natural self
[51:31] and
[51:35] you know the third question
[51:39] probably
[51:40] has to do with
[51:44] do you understand why you are doing what
[51:48] you're doing and
[51:53] it depends on what you care about
[51:56] and this may go into values
[52:00] so like most people i mean i value
[52:02] i value income i mean i don't work for
[52:05] free
[52:06] i i don't i intentionally don't work in
[52:08] the social sector i intentionally don't
[52:10] work in non-profits
[52:12] i am capitalist
[52:14] i've always worked in the private sector
[52:16] i now have a company that
[52:18] could have been a non-profit but we are
[52:20] not
[52:23] and
[52:24] i have a certain
[52:26] desire
[52:28] for a standard of living and i'm very
[52:30] comfortable with that
[52:33] so
[52:34] i don't take money off the table
[52:36] but i also think that certain people's
[52:39] motivations around money it's really on
[52:42] quite a wide spectrum
[52:45] some people are highly highly motivated
[52:49] by money that is that is fine
[52:53] to a certain degree
[52:56] as long as you're not cheating and lying
[52:57] and stealing and all that good stuff but
[52:58] i think it's it's like knowing yourself
[53:01] and
[53:02] and what that means and what are the
[53:04] trade-offs associated with it
[53:07] and then there's the flip side where i
[53:09] will have people say to me
[53:10] [Music]
[53:12] i'm not motivated at all
[53:16] and therefore they're unwilling to maybe
[53:19] speak to an employer about a salary
[53:21] offer
[53:23] and then
[53:25] flash forward you find that the salary
[53:28] doesn't fit you know a personal budget
[53:30] that creates stress it creates
[53:33] tension it creates conflict you know
[53:35] there's a whole bunch of things
[53:37] i think it you know that is just an
[53:39] example of you really need to know
[53:42] what your values are and what
[53:45] is the impact that you're trying to make
[53:48] and when i get lost
[53:51] for a period of time for a day
[53:54] i ha i step back and i ask myself
[53:58] what is the impact of my work
[54:02] what am i trying to do
[54:06] and
[54:09] for me i mean i'm very fortunate because
[54:11] for me it's very clear
[54:13] i want to help people get jobs
[54:15] and then i want people to get better
[54:17] jobs
[54:18] and then when people are in those jobs i
[54:20] want them to go as far as their
[54:22] aspirations will take them
[54:25] and if i'm not doing those three things
[54:28] whatever i'm doing i shouldn't be doing
[54:32] and i'll give you an example of an odd
[54:34] so i've taught for many years i've been
[54:36] in the classroom i've been a full-time
[54:39] professor i've been an adjunct
[54:41] i love teaching i mean i really do
[54:45] and
[54:46] i had to give it up
[54:48] and i i was it was very hard for me to
[54:50] do it i had to give it up during the
[54:51] pandemic
[54:53] it was hard to teach online
[54:56] and i knew that i wasn't doing it as
[54:57] well as i could i have two kids that at
[55:00] the time were in second grade
[55:03] it required a lot more attention with my
[55:06] family
[55:07] and then i'm running a company in the
[55:09] middle of a pandemic and
[55:12] the class i taught even though it was
[55:15] oriented around career
[55:19] in the things that
[55:21] i know that i need to do in my business
[55:24] with our current clients
[55:27] and the growth and my team and my family
[55:29] like i had to pluck
[55:31] that
[55:32] out
[55:34] because i just didn't have the time to
[55:37] dedicate to it and it was
[55:40] it was hard i mean i i miss it
[55:43] i probably
[55:45] you know
[55:46] felt a sense of joy doing that that's a
[55:48] little different than my work
[55:50] but at the end of the day
[55:52] i was having to put on
[55:54] like oh you know i get to be a professor
[55:57] and
[55:58] it
[56:00] it was sort of me you know feeding a
[56:02] little bit of my ego
[56:04] right
[56:05] and and so i think that those choices
[56:08] become much easier when you ask yourself
[56:11] those tough questions
[56:14] what am i doing and why
[56:16] you know am i am i being the persona
[56:18] that i really feel comfortable
[56:20] am i making choices for others or myself
[56:26] great information
[56:28] this interview is full of information
[56:30] we have last four minutes left um so i
[56:33] wanted to ask your message to the
[56:36] audience but before i do that
[56:38] very rapid question
[56:40] how do you manage your time is it a
[56:43] based list or
[56:45] some application based list
[56:47] i do three things so yes
[56:50] i have paper
[56:51] i have a collection of these
[56:54] i have an online project management
[56:57] system that we use called base camp um
[57:00] and then
[57:02] i have a calendar and those three things
[57:05] all come together and i'm probably i'll
[57:08] give myself like an 88 percent
[57:12] goodness at time management
[57:14] okay but yeah i mean i use multiple
[57:16] systems
[57:18] i have very complex schedules so it's
[57:20] it's important to do that because i deal
[57:22] with clients
[57:24] but i do think that i mean it's it's
[57:26] good you asked that question
[57:28] learning time management is a really
[57:30] really valuable skill so everybody
[57:32] should give attention to that
[57:34] especially early in your career because
[57:36] if you don't do it early it gets harder
[57:38] as you get
[57:39] more
[57:40] more along the
[57:42] later stages and life and all that other
[57:44] stuff
[57:46] definitely so your message to people who
[57:49] are in their early career
[57:51] and trying to visualize what they could
[57:54] become in 5-10 years from now
[57:56] i think it's first
[57:58] aspire
[58:00] to greatness
[58:02] you know it's
[58:04] i want people to dream and have really
[58:08] big dreams and and do great things and
[58:11] contribute
[58:12] to society contribute to a community
[58:15] contribute
[58:17] to something i don't think
[58:19] you should avoid dreaming
[58:23] i think the second message is
[58:26] be patient
[58:28] we want everything
[58:31] so fast
[58:33] and
[58:34] when you're 20
[58:36] your career is going to be
[58:38] 30 plus
[58:40] years
[58:43] it's not set in stone what you do in
[58:45] your 20s
[58:49] won't probably be the thing you're doing
[58:51] in your 50s
[58:55] if you keep building
[58:57] skills and relationships you can evolve
[59:02] and
[59:03] you know the thing about that maybe the
[59:05] last message is
[59:09] people in relationships are really
[59:10] really important you need people to
[59:12] support you
[59:13] you need people to advise you
[59:16] you need people to give you tough
[59:17] messages
[59:19] when you're having a bad day you need
[59:21] somebody to talk to to pep you up
[59:24] and
[59:25] no degree is gonna give you that no
[59:28] training course
[59:29] is gonna give you that
[59:31] so you know dream and and aspire to do
[59:35] great things
[59:36] work at it but put in a little patience
[59:39] and then
[59:40] have an amazing group of people around
[59:43] you
[59:45] that can
[59:47] support you in multiple facets
[59:50] right not always good sometimes it's
[59:52] tough
[59:54] but people that really champion
[59:57] for you because
[59:59] i think we should we know right now in
[1:00:01] the world around us
[1:00:03] things are tough and and you need that
[1:00:06] support system
[1:00:08] just to help you be the best version of
[1:00:10] you
[1:00:11] thank you thank you so much for your
[1:00:13] time today pam you're welcome good luck
[1:00:15] with this all right i look forward to
[1:00:16] seeing it